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Occupy vs. Seasteading

Home Forums Community General Chat Occupy vs. Seasteading

This topic contains 79 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of elspru elspru 2 years, 9 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 80 total)
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  • #16151
    Avatar of xns
    xns
    Participant

    The rest of the world still sees the “occupy” movement as, “Just Americans rioting again for no reason”. I can’t tell what they’re hoping to accomplish, so far all I’ve seen are guys hanging out in parks recycling water…

    King Shannon of the Constitutional Monarchy of Logos.

    #16152
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Stop watching Fox News :)

    #16153
    Avatar of chadsims
    chadsims
    Participant

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    The shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep’s for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as his liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act as the destroyer of liberty. Plainly, the sheep and the wolf are not agreed upon a definition of liberty.
    Abraham Lincoln

    This is a great example of how libertarian societies fit ALL. A athoritarian group CAN form a miniature Athroitarian group in the libertarain society, they are free to go and do it as long as they do not break any of the laws. (Which would be minimalist) BUT if you have an athoritarian group you can not provide for the Libertarians. Now I’d say you have three types of people. Sheep (OWS), Wolves (WS), and Bears (libertarians). The wolves and sheep are groop animals. The difference is the wolves believe that sheep should be prayed on when they can be, sheep believe that everything should be given to them by those same wolves. Bears are partially solitary animals though they can be sociable,and pretty much do their own thing, ,protect their own, and leave others alone. I’d rather be in a society run by bears than any other one.

    ‘Lead, Follow, or get out of my way.’ -Unknown

    #16167
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Went to Occupy Toronto today, it was Awesome!

    many happy people, it’s an intentional community of it’s own.

    Very interesting process going on there, I might join in with organization.

    It’s quite possible that the Occupy movements and Seasteading can work together :-).

    Perhaps Occupiers that want to get out of the system, can do so with Seasteads :-D.

    It’s also a great time to learn about management and community organization skills.

    Everybody is so kind, and friendly, it’s truly one of the best experiences ever.

    chadsims wrote:

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    The shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep’s for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as his liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act as the destroyer of liberty. Plainly, the sheep and the wolf are not agreed upon a definition of liberty.
    Abraham Lincoln

    This is a great example of how libertarian societies fit ALL. A athoritarian group CAN form a miniature Athroitarian group in the libertarain society,

    [/quote]

    that would be more neo-tribalist.

    they are free to go and do it as long as they do not break any of the laws. (Which would be minimalist)

    if they have to abide by an outside groups laws, then they are merely an enclave.

    of course they’d have to be responsible to their neighbours and sufficiently beneficial to creation.

    However they should be able to make their own laws within their community/society,

    this is the only way people can see for themselves if those laws are worth following.

    BUT if you have an athoritarian group you can not provide for the Libertarians. Now I’d say you have three types of people. Sheep (OWS), Wolves (WS), and Bears (libertarians). The wolves and sheep are groop animals. The difference is the wolves believe that sheep should be prayed on when they can be, sheep believe that everything should be given to them by those same wolves. Bears are partially solitary animals though they can be sociable,and pretty much do their own thing, ,protect their own, and leave others alone. I’d rather be in a society run by bears than any other one.

    ‘Lead, Follow, or get out of my way.’ -Unknown

    bears are still top-predators. Bears have also been associated with Russian/soviet people, so in that sense I’m flattered, thanks :-).

    We with You are a Network, our goal to become technologically-enabled reproducible family communities. http://weyounet.info

    #16173
    Avatar of chadsims
    chadsims
    Participant

    elspru wrote:

    Everybody is so kind, and friendly, it’s truly one of the best experiences ever.

    Yeah, that’s NOT the american Movement. We’ve got rape, sexual assault, the organizers begging the victims to ‘not report it’ because they don’t want to look bad. Violence, nastyness, The ONE city that tried to have a hands off approach… Oakland, ended up with riots, violence, and having to be more controlling to settle them down. Now don’t get me wrong, the banks have been greedy, but OUR occupiers are wrong, as wrong as the banks.

    if they have to abide by an outside groups laws, then they are merely an enclave.

    of course they’d have to be responsible to their neighbours and sufficiently beneficial to creation.

    However they should be able to make their own laws within their community/society,

    That’s exactly my point. They could have their own little society in my society, and they could make their own laws and such, as long as the group agrees to abide those laws, and they break none of the big comunity laws.

    bears are still top-predators. Bears have also been associated with Russian/soviet people, so in that sense I’m flattered, thanks :-).

    Yes bears are an appex preditor. They are the top of the food chain… but they don’t prey on either the sheep or the wolvies. They only combate the wolves to keep them out of their bussiness. They only attack the sheep if they wonder into their area (Again protecting their area, not that they won’t eat a sheep :P ) Bears though don’t form groups, and don’t spasificlly target any groups like unless it’s self defence or depseration (they’ll hunt sheep if they are starving)

    As for russia… I do not agree with most things the russian governments has done. BUT I base my defensive tactics heavily on russian influence. I’ve got to give the old bears credit for being tough bastards. :D I’ve got nothing aginst russian people though, or any people, just prefer having as little government over sight as possible and Russia would never be the place for me.

    ‘Lead, Follow, or get out of my way.’ -Unknown

    #16174
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    You make sound like they burned the whole Oakland, lol….In fact, only 80 people arested out of 8000 demonstratos, 1%, it ain’t bad at all, specially after that marine was injured and in coma. Keep in mind the sequance of events. The violence and rioting happened AFTER the police crack down.

    Plus, we shuldn’t discount the conspiracy possibility. Those masked rioters could have been infiltrators from the right, deemed to discredit and paint the whole movment as huligans and anachists,…its been done before, you know that.

    As for “They could have their own little society in my society, and they could make their own laws and such,…” while I theoretically do agree with that, it’s just a fictional statement in regard to the present reality. We have federal law, state law, county and municipality ordinancies, “custom tailored” to suppress any freedom movements.

    And talking abot violence and police brutality, watch this video of a cop (sworn to protect and serve ???) thowing a flash grenade in a crowd that’s trying to help an injured guy, insted of calling an ambulance and provide first aid.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEd3TNQgtWg

    Wow, that’s disgusting!

    #16176
    Avatar of chadsims
    chadsims
    Participant

    Only 1% arrested because they didn’t have the police force to handle every person who broke the law that night. I’ve seen OCCUPY supporters talking about how the movement is now 50% anarcists, extrreamists and other negetive elements. Their where hundreds involved in the oakland incident. Now you want me to get into the OCCUPY movement, and how they are telling people that they shouldn’t report rapes? I watched an occupy member on TV who was sexually hurrased, talk about how ‘their couldn’t be rapes here’. if you want to start trading tapes we could be here all day. The police on a WHOLE in the US have been handleing this amazingly. As for the ‘crack down’ you’re saying happened the police got a report that a large group (A few hundred) had decided to burn down some building, they show up and catch it happening, one of the 50% people who are peaceful reported the other 50%. That’s the ‘crack down’ you’re talking about, now their doing a real crack down to protect the people. What about the shop owner who had to stand outside his store with a shotgun to protect it? The other shop owners who have had to fire people to stay in bussiness because peopel are to scared to come near the movement? Don’t even get me started on the 1%+ of the movement who are slinging around ‘kick the jews out’ statments. The Occupy movement started great and has now disintergrated into mobs in all the major cities. Now I will add that the smaller city movements, Huntsville, Syracuse, ect have been great. But the movements like Boston SHUTING DOWN THE DOCKS! how is that supposed to help americans? That’s hurting the economy and the very people they where their to help.

    Now all that said, I believe their are elements in the group snuck in my others to distroy it from the inside out. But I believe that they are doing it by organizing the more violent members. Heck I watched a homeless man complaining at some tents that he didn’t have one, he had to sleep int he cold… an occupy member came out and started pushing him around, and the occupy ‘security’ ‘excorted’ him out. The parks where the homeless home before the Occupy got their. How about them claiming that they are on ‘public land’ and how they have a right to be their and 75% of the locations they are at are not public property but privatly owned. They have no right to squat on private property. Every day the movement gets more violent, less intelligent, and an embarassment to the US.

    But to each their own oppinion right Ocean? I just can’t trust a movement that is near a mirror pre-WWII germany. Pro-union, anti-capitalism, anti-rich… and slowly becoming more and more anti-jew. Populous movements are very very very dangerous. They should not be done the way Occupy is. They should be done like the Tea Party (Who i’m not a part of or agree with completely.. they just do it much more peaceably).

    ‘Lead, Follow, or get out of my way.’ -Unknown

    PS: Watched that video, what they don’t tell you is that for a cop to have hoped that WITH the group their and provide first aid that they are TRAINED to do, would have meant likely more violence as the mob would have assumed that the man was being arrested. Now you also forget that when cops do those things they have ambulances READY. As for the video claiming the police where shooting them int eh face with flash on purpose… look CLOSER at the video, the greanade was LOBBED into the group, the injurey came before that and was likely from a stampeed of people knocking someone down. Their are always two sides to each story. You NEVER break to help people while their is still things going on, as an ex-soldier I understand that.

    #16178
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    In fact, far from them, in terms of morals and integrity. That was not a combat operation. 20 cops, standing around armed and in full bullet proof riot gear and all they can do pop another grenade? Please,…

    As for an embarassment to the US”s what? Of being a police state for decades now or the “great accomplisments” of the (illiterate) Bush era? Ha. Don’t get me started :)

    To be honest, I really don’t care about the Ocuppy, Tea Party, left, right, rich, poor, etc. Everybody’s fool of shit nowadays. All I care is about seasteading. In fact, this whole thread is useless and a waste of our time because instead of talking about our goal and how to come together to make it a reality, we’re talking about crap.

    #16179
    Avatar of chadsims
    chadsims
    Participant

    Both groups handle riots and civil discord. Both groups know that for that cop to have left his station and gone forward would ahve put him in unessisary danger and then his fellow officers as things could have spiralled out of control. The situation presented a no win opption. Act cold and do your job. Don’t do your job and possibly make matters worse but at least noone will accuse you of being heartless.

    But isn’t disagreements like this part of the Seasteading movement?? To each their own?

    Edit: As for bush, he was no worse than obama, who was no worse tha clinton, who was no worse than bush one. We’ve had a long string of bad leaders, athoritairans who have been taking control from the american people.

    ‘Lead, Follow, or get out of my way.’ -Unknown

    #16180
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Where I draw the line is protesters vandalizing, blocking traffic, and entrances to buildings. If people want to hold signs and assemble to make a point, fine. I even liked OWS at first when they seemed to know the appropriate targets by going to the federal reserve and big banks. When I read about them blocking entry to customers going to banks, blocking workers entering the Oakland shipyards, traffic, and breaking windows of businesses in the streets, they lost any sympathy I had. There does seem to be a group of professional agitators doing a lot of the vandalism though, like at the WTO riots in LA and Seattle.

    One way to handle it with minimal risk to law enforcement is to remove police protection of people marching in the streets or blocking entrances from being run over by motorists, so if you’re run over because you were blocking traffic, too bad, you’re on your own. Same thing, if a property owner injures or kills you for vandalizing his property or trespassing during a demnostration, again, too bad, you’re on your own.

    #16183
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    I don’t think that we have much disagrement. Or at least fundamental ones. It seems to be nothing more than a lack of realization that nobody will build us no shinny seastead.

    Unless anybody has a better plan, if we want it done, we’d better start doing it ourselves.

    PS. I lost count long time ago of how many times I said that :)

    #16185
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    So let’s find some used boats and a place to park them. If Columbia is out of reach to tow them to, how about Belize? They could be loaded on trucks and hauled to Belize. Last I knew in the mid nineties, a convoy would form about once a week, irregularly to let enough traffic to build up for an escort from Mexico to show up, to make the trip from Texas to Belize. It just seems easier to tow them across the gulf, but a lot of the house boats are in lakes, so it could be easier to just haul them all the way if they’re on trucks anyway.

    #16189
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Went to Occupy today again,

    Again another wopping success. The whole day I was there, only had enough time to eat an apple, since was occupied with talking to people, marching, and partaking in comittee’s.

    BTW I donno about those other places, but we have a peace-keeping tent at OT, also we have a bunch of dry semi-militant native-people who keep the peace. We also have meditation groups and drum-circles to settle and rebalance energies.

    For all of you that like Belize and intentional community idea, this is it people! It is here!

    All the Occupy movements are intentional communities, some larger than others, though they have all the elements.

    Early on today, met with the demands commitee, they were talking about progressive taxation.

    I suggested that we make it so people only pay for the services they wish,

    and people should be allowed to be nomads and homesteaders,

    most people agreed that my points were quite valid.

    public services lure people to a community,

    so businesses could opt for that service,

    to get more customers.

    In terms of Seasteading, when I was at the world-domination/illuminati commitee-meeting, mainly my long-time friends, but also a scottish freemason of the logan family, and an native illuminati from equador. we discussed how the Occupy movements, are exit-points for people that are fed-up with the system and wish to leave. One way of leaving is by boat, at least 4 people at the same meeting say they’d sail or crew with me.

    These occupy movements, are a source of many people that are willing to do things, not just for cheap but free, all for the sake of creating our own communities.

    Hereditary chief of the Blackfoot, I marched along side in the parade to city-hall today, he’s calling the livestream “Yarr FM”, calling the occupy movement the “mothership”, calls himself “first-mate”, the subcaptions said please-donate Yaaaaarrr!, so happens that I had a poster today it says Live-in-pARidise on one side, and vote-pirate-party with a subtext of donate on the other.

    http://occupyto.org/livestream/

    So we can certainly rechannel the occupy energies towards seasteading.

    Today at least 4 people asked me if I was staying at the movement, mostly assuming that I did, so I’m gonna set up my tent, and sleep there part-time, perhaps I’ll alternate days, so can maintain my apartment/pets/partner.

    Last meeting was with the winterizing comitee, suggested we get lard for cheap calories, mats for people to sleep on, and tarps to cover their tents.

    We with You are a Network, our goal to become technologically-enabled reproducible family communities. http://weyounet.info

    #16196
    Avatar of chadsims
    chadsims
    Participant

    elspru wrote:

    Early on today, met with the demands commitee, they were talking about progressive taxation.

    I suggested that we make it so people only pay for the services they wish,

    I honestly don’t know of a country that has a flat tax not progressive taxation.

    As for paying for the services they wish… I might actually be able to live in your seastead. :D Services… Police, fire, public space maintance, schools, and that’s it. I’d be paying next to nothing in taxes here in the US. No SS, no Forein aid (I give myself the government doesn’t have to give for me), no WF. I’d love to be able to opt out of so many services.

    ‘Lead, Follow, or get out of my way.’ -Unknown

    #16197
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    might not be suitable for a seastead application, regarding of whatever political belief. The reason behind it is because you are at sea, and certain maritime law, written or unwritten, apply and has to be followed. What we call “taxation” on land, we should call a “seastead maintenance” fee, or as I coined it, SOFA (seastead owner association fee).

    As an examle of a good unwritten maritime law is “one hand for the boat and one hand for yourself”, meaning that while doing any activity onboard, you should always grab on a lifeline when moving around, ’cause otherwise, as a captain explained to us rookies long time ago, “on a dark and stormy night you might end up part of the seafood chain” :)

    In addition to the services ennumarated above, I thing included in the SOFA should be power generation, fresh water generation, providing for food supply, trash serices, mail services and health care. Which services should be centralized. The reason being so is plain and simple Dollars and Sense.

    Assuming that the smallest size seastead that can GO offshore and STAY offshore should be no smaller than 200′ LOA (length over all) and population 50+ seasteaders, the above services (all essential to the proper function of the seasteading society onboard) are much, much cheaper when provided in “bulk”, rather then being left as an individual choice.

    PS. I think a Disability Fund should be ok, since life @ sea is prone to accidents, BUT F#$%* the Foreign Aid. What the heck is that?

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