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Netting and Rebar

Home Forums Research Engineering Netting and Rebar

This topic contains 12 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Alan Alan 3 years, 5 months ago.

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
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  • #1477
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    So I’ve read that galvinized twisted wire netting and rebar is the best kind for seasteading.

    I read in ferro-cement book it’s best to have a tightly woven one,

    “1/2 inch galvinized hexagonal twisted wire netting 22 guage wire” and the rolls are “3ft wide by 50yds”

    “the netting must also be well weathered to create a surface film and remove the shine, so that plaster may adhere”

    Is it possible to get netting and rebar from common stores like home-depot?

    So how do we cut or bend rebar?

    #13080
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    double post

    #13081
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    triple post ? :- | oops, it’s late, I must be tired.

    #13083
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    You can get that @ Home Depot. Your netting it’s called chicken wire in US. It’s under the gardening department as you pass the cheese clay pots, on the left next to the hoses. :) You can also buy concrete mix, mortar there. If you want a fast dry look for quickcrete. But you have to work fast and it’s more expensive. Rebar also, all the sizes. Also rebar netting. Rebar is cut with big ass boltcutter like tools. Rebar would bend easy if in long pieces. Use your knees. (I am serious:) And no, I dont work for the Home Depot :)

    #13085
    Avatar of R-B-Wood
    R-B-Wood
    Participant

    I prefer Lowes on the east coast, and Home depot on the west coast. Is chicken wire strong enough or do you want some of the thicker stuff similar to what they put in floors and driveways? (a gridwork of maybe 12 gauge sized rods)

    In a dingy I’m sure it’d be fine, but I’ve seen chicken wire reinforced things break relatively easily, of course if you reinforce it primarily with thick rebar, then you would have the rebar for the main strength.

    #13090
    Avatar of J.L.-Frusha
    J.L.-Frusha
    Participant

    Not sure where hot-dip galvanized rebar is available. Usually a galvanized pipe frame is covered with rebar and that is covered with 3-5 layers of chicken wire, inside and out.

    Later,

    J.L.F.

    Never be afraid to try something new…

    Remember, amateurs built the ark, professionals built the Titanic.

    #13091
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    The book I was reading emphasized how it was not called chicken wire but rather “bird-wire” since chicken wire is 1-2 inches, wheras bird-wire is 1/2 inch – 1/4 inch. Though I guess a name is just a name.

    I read in this book that truss-frame is much better than pipe-frame method.

    Anyhow so how about Arc Welders? I read in the book I need 140amp stick Arc Welder.

    does it have to be so many amps? also how would a MIG or TIG welder compare?

    Considering that my location is remote, I’ll likely need to have a portable welder.

    How long does a portable welder work for? Will I also need to get a generator?

    How many watts should the generator produce?

    Also what would your recommendations be for the longest-lived or best setup?

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #13105
    Avatar of J.L.-Frusha
    J.L.-Frusha
    Participant

    Bird netting aka chicken wire can be ordered down to 1/2″. Older manuals call for 1″-2″ hex fencing. As for trusses, I don’t know, but I’d like the source info., so I can check it out.

    With pipe, rebar and bird/chicken wire, it’s tied together with safety wire and there are pliers that make that easy… No welder needed!

    IF the bird-wire is welded, as opposed to twisted together, I would avoid it. Twisted is stronger and tougher… Either way, 2-5 cm covering the wier, inside the hull and outside, plastered through the built-up structure, is recommended, to protect the metal.

    Later,

    J.L.F.

    Never be afraid to try something new…

    Remember, amateurs built the ark, professionals built the Titanic.

    #13107
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    J.L. wrote:

    Bird netting aka chicken wire can be ordered down to 1/2″. Older manuals call for 1″-2″ hex fencing.

    As for trusses, I don’t know, but I’d like the source info., so I can check it out.

    Ferro-Cement Boats by Colin Brookes

    I got it as recommended by ferroboats.com

    i was unaware there were other manuals available.

    With pipe, rebar and bird/chicken wire, it’s tied together with safety wire and there are pliers that make that easy… No welder needed!

    that’s really awesome I love lashings,

    I ordered Ashley’s Book of Knots today :-D.

    hmm, yes so tendons could be made from wire.

    I was thinking of using angles or I-beam style things for the frame/skeleton.

    Can probably drill holes in tips if they aren’t pre-drilled, for the wires.

    I happen to have some galvinized steel wires from the dollar store.

    IF the bird-wire is welded, as opposed to twisted together, I would avoid it. Twisted is stronger and tougher…

    Aye, I agree with that, awesomeness

    Either way, 2-5 cm covering the wier, inside the hull and outside,

    plastered through the built-up structure, is recommended, to protect the metal.

    not sure such a thick layer would be doable on a dinghy.

    I thought galvinized basically took care of that,

    would painting wires with epoxy help?

    I know in concrete-canoes they use 0.5 cm of concrete.

    http://www.concretecanoe.org/TipsandStrategy/Carnivale.pdf

    Awesomly their concrete actually floats 800kg/m^3 :-).

    They actually used fiberglass mesh for netting,

    and fiber reinforced plastic for frame skeleton.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #13110
    Avatar of J.L.-Frusha
    J.L.-Frusha
    Participant

    At that scale, yes, you could do it without the rebar. Going up to something livable, requires more material, structurally AND thickness of coating cement.

    Epoxy is too brittle (cracking and flaking at the least stress), that’s why the hot-dip galvanized rebar, pipe and poultry wire is used and recommended for some corrosion resistance. Also, spray-on galvanizing is recommended for any spots that the zinc has come off (usually an abrasion).

    Thicker cement, for larger vessels adds corrosion resistance and physical protection from lesser impacts.

    If I remember correctly, the original ferrocement boat, something resembling a canoe, or dugout, weighs over 80 lbs. and is still considered water-worthy.

    Layers of poultry wire are placed in overlapping, alternating pattern, so that they allow the cement into the mesh, but give it the tensile strength that cement alone does not have and transmit the stresses to a larger area. Think of joists supporting a floor. the cement and wire ties the rebar together, just as the flooring ties the joists together. The rebar carries the load, like the joists do, in a floor.

    Later,

    J.L.F.

    Never be afraid to try something new…

    Remember, amateurs built the ark, professionals built the Titanic.

    #13151
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    J.L. wrote:

    At that scale, yes, you could do it without the rebar. Going up to something livable, requires more material, structurally AND thickness of coating cement.

    Epoxy is too brittle (cracking and flaking at the least stress), that’s why the hot-dip galvanized rebar, pipe and poultry wire is used and recommended for some corrosion resistance. Also, spray-on galvanizing is recommended for any spots that the zinc has come off (usually an abrasion).

    what is this ‘spray on galvinizing’? how does that work. Perhaps can galvinize rebar in such manner.

    Also 18′ or 24′ bolt cutters? I’m leaning towards 18′ as they are more portable, weighing half as much.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #13153
    Avatar of J.L.-Frusha
    J.L.-Frusha
    Participant

    It’s cheap, spray-on cold-galvanizing…

    http://www.kpg-industrial.com/products/zincrich_cold_galvanizing_compound/

    Later,

    J.L.F.

    Never be afraid to try something new…

    Remember, amateurs built the ark, professionals built the Titanic.

    #13233
    Avatar of Alan
    Alan
    Participant

    elspru wrote:
    Anyhow so how about Arc Welders? I read in the book I need 140amp stick Arc Welder.

    does it have to be so many amps? also how would a MIG or TIG welder compare?

    I’d go with a MIG welder unless you’re going to be working in windy conditions.

    Stick Welders have fewer parts, but require more skill and experience to operate. A MIG welder is a more complicated machine, but is much easier to operate and to weld with.

    I’ve used all three types of welder when I took several classes at a local community college. In fact, I’d recommend you try that route if you’re interested in welding. Community colleges tend to be cheap, and there’s a good chance the teacher will let you do a small project or two in class. That’s also a good way to get recommendations on a good welding machine to buy, if you want to seriously get into this.

    As for rebar – there are special tools just for rebar, and the specifics can change a lot, depending on whether the rebar you’re using is 3/8 inch, 1 inch, or something else. 3/8 inch rebar bends easily – 1 inch rebar does not – at least, not without the proper tools.

    If you have a local community college, go visit some of the guys who teach the trades, and they should be able to give you some ideas.

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