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Modular Island Design

Home Forums Archive Structure Designs Modular Island Design

This topic contains 154 replies, has 35 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Ken Sims Ken Sims 3 years, 4 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 121 through 135 (of 155 total)
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  • #11943

    The beauty of the used houseboat solution is that you get a floating living space that is conveniently equipped with everything you need. The downside it is only useable in protected water – means not on open ocean. So how can we make it open ocean capeable in a secondary building process?

    Building a complete concrete shell around it ? – ferrosheeting? –

    What about building a floating breakwater ring or U-shape around it and have it moored in the center like a spider. The breakwater takes the open ocean waves and the houseboat stays in conditions similar to a marina box. Rafting up breakwater rings with all kind of non standardized houseboats inside we get a semi permanent floating come together – seastead marina is born.

    We could sell breakwater rings as “houseboat upgrade kit” .

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    #11944
    Profile photo of Ekras
    Ekras
    Participant

    The beauty of the used houseboat solution is that you get a floating living space that is conveniently equipped with everything you need. The downside it is only useable in protected water – means not on open ocean. So how can we make it open ocean capeable in a secondary building process?

    Building a complete concrete shell around it ? – ferrosheeting? -

    What about building a floating breakwater ring or U-shape around it and have it moored in the center like a spider. The breakwater takes the open ocean waves and the houseboat stays in conditions similar to a marina box. Rafting up breakwater rings with all kind of non standardized houseboats inside we get a semi permanent floating come together – seastead marina is born.

    We could sell breakwater rings as “houseboat upgrade kit” .

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    That’s actually not a bad idea…. something like this might work – PLEASE FORGIVE MY TERRIBLE ARTWORK – The black lines would represent barriers – by doing this larger waves would be broken down into more managable sizes. The Red circle would be a low-height barrier reef. The blue ring would be a medium height reef (1 foot maybe?) – the orange ring would be a wall – maybe something like fiberglass would work for this – this would prevent anything that made it past the earlier reefs from hitting the homes in the center area.

    Just an idea…..

    #11945
    Profile photo of Ekras
    Ekras
    Participant

    What about using an RV or a Mobile Home?

    #11946

    hello

    I was thinking more of a normal concrete floating breakwater – link two of them in a V shape point the tip against the waves – you will enjoy a calm waterspace inside the V and the whole thing might even navigate at a acceptable speed.

    Compare the seaworthyness of such a structure with KON TIKI and keep in mind that this raft made it over the pacific – you would get something technically at least equal. Just your “bambus hut” is a comfortable houseboat (or mobil home) and your “balsa logs” are bigger and tougher and longer lasting as made of concrete. What we can learn from Kon Tiki is that it might be useful to maintain a certain flexibility between the floating elements, and that flat raft floats are much more seaworthy than generally expected.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    #11957
    Profile photo of Alan
    Alan
    Participant

    I’m really liking the breakwater idea, and agree with (I think it was Ekras) that the modules don’t have to all be the same as long as they can work together. I’m thinking of Lego blocks as an analogy, which can be different thicknesses, lengths, and widths, but they all can fit together into a single structure.

    Even so, it has become evident from discussions here that there are very different ideas on the SHAPES of the modules, so a floating breakwater can solve some of these problems, and I guess there could also be some “conversion connections” available for connecting dissimilar modules.

    #11958

    Alan,

    snap fit parts and lego modules are not the only way to connect elements. Floating marina breakwaters show the way how many different boats, floats, and housing solutions come together with no snap fit at all – the breakwater elements can use a post tension cable sistem.

    As the Kon Tiki experiment shows leaving the elements relativly loose (just connected with ropes in the case of Kon Tiki so they can move to some degree) may be more a advantage than a problem. Some tires, some chains, some tendon anchors, some flexible rubber elements to keep things in place. Maybe some ball joints like the monaco 160.000 ton floating breakwater, some saddle joints, some train waggon connections, nothing fancy, no engineering quantum leap – just take marina development out to open sea. Connections between ships and load terminals in open water are just normal tire fenders and mooring lines.

    Connection points

    The nkossa barge and the monaco breakwater, sea launch, adriatic lng, give an example that you can connect (dock) structures that have thousands of tons in open water.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    #11962
    Profile photo of Alan
    Alan
    Participant

    ellmer - http://yook3.com wrote:
    snap fit parts and lego modules are not the only way to connect elements. Floating marina breakwaters show the way how many different boats, floats, and housing solutions come together with no snap fit at all – the breakwater elements can use a post tension cable sistem.

    I’m still not used to thinking of things in nautical ways, but you are correct – at least as concerns connecting floating modules.

    However, in previous threads we have also discussed such things as using housing modules that could be easily exchanged between ships or colonies. For those applications we may well desire some standardized system, without necessarily needing a standard size.

    #11963

    We can not make a decision on standard modules – standards implement themselfs driven by the market in a secondary process not in the beginning. Just think on USB ports, video standards, etc… there where computers and connections before USB .

    So probably the best we can do is create a big lazy raft up – where inventors of snap fit solutions of any kind can take a corner and show the benefits of their sistem to the public – the buyers will decide what sistem works best. But i fear that there will be multiple answers like in the turn key prefab housing market – it will always be a relative small part of the total market that wants standard homes.

    Nevertheless land based cities have some standardisation – street width is 2,5m – electric, water, services are standard.

    The closest thing to a marine standard connection at the moment is the tire fender. Cheap, universal used by small boats, industrial installations, scaleable, long lasting.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    #11964
    Profile photo of Ken Sims
    Ken Sims
    Keymaster
    ellmer - http://yook3.com wrote:

    We can not make a decision on standard modules – standards implement themselfs driven by the market in a secondary process not in the beginning. Just think on USB ports, video standards, etc… there where computers and connections before USB .

    Just what all are these connections going to do?

    Standards like USB and video involve at least three things:

    1. Mechanical – The connections have to fit together mechanically and the electrical terminals have to touch snugly.

    2. Electrical – The voltage levels, etc. have to match.

    3. Protocol – The things on either side of the connection have to have a common protocol.

    If we are simply hooking multiple stand-alone modules together, then the only concern should be mechanical.

    If there is shared infrastructure, then obviously the matching has to be more exact, especially if electrical power is being shared. But even then presumably some existing national standard would be used.

    #11967

    If we go really fancy we could have something like a train knuckle. It is a instant connection for tension/compression forces, compressed air, electric, and all you need in a train wagon maintaining flexibility between units. The monaco breakwater features such a thing to connect it to land. The bad news – not even train wagons made it to standard connections worldwide – they are different in every country and every train sistem.

    The good news – once a standard implements itself – you can gear up your housing solution with such a piece later. Just like you gear up your old computer with a new USB port. So the most easy way to go seems to avoid a situation like “the module is the connection piece” and go better for “the module features a removeable connection piece”. This enables to connect houseboat seasteads to clubsteads without having a standard for the module itself, its shape and its size.

    We will probably end up with multi connection pieces on a single family seastead like the travel connector of your laptop fitting and adapting to several US, European, standards. Or we may be stuck with tire fenders and lines (which are really adaptable) for a long time.

    One “standardisation of connections” in marine ambient that is already happening is a flat ship side to allow a “gap free docking” as visible on the green container freighter and the cruiseship above. So keeping one side of the module flat for docking purpose may be a start.

    Wil

    #11979

    Alan wrote:

    …I’m really liking the breakwater idea….

    Me too – it looks as the most scaleable most easy to integrate yachts, houseboats, floats, and structures of all kind, seaworthyness and size – into one floating modular city.

    Why was the breakwater idea abandoned ?

    I track it back to elcos declaration that rafting up structures would create forces in certain seastates that can be as big as the total weight of the structure. I can not reject elcos math on this matter but when i look around i see industrial structures rafting up on open ocean quite frequently having delicate connections that are obviously not capeable to take such forces. Nevertheless they seem to work in practice for decades with no problem at all.

    So i would relativate the postulate of “raft up not possible in open sea” and further explore this possiblilty just like oil/gas and shipping industry does.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    #11980
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Alan wrote:

    …I’m really liking the breakwater idea….

    Me too – it looks as the most scaleable most easy to integrate yachts, houseboats, floats, and structures of all kind, seaworthyness and size – into one floating modular city.

    Why was the breakwater idea abandoned ?

    I track it back to elcos declaration that rafting up structures would create forces in certain seastates that can be as big as the total weight of the structure. I can not reject elcos math on this matter but when i look around i see industrial structures rafting up on open ocean quite frequently having delicate connections that are obviously not capeable to take such forces. Nevertheless they seem to work in practice for decades with no problem at all.

    So i would relativate the postulate of “raft up not possible in open sea” and further explore this possiblilty just like oil/gas and shipping industry does.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    [/quote]

    I’m really curious how much would such a breakwater cost?

    I’d like to also point out that there aren’t any foating breakwaters in nature.

    though there are temporary floating islands that form from volcanic pumice.

    Yes I completely agree with using ropes, padding (tires) and holds.

    since we are using concrete can use metal ropes for more permanent connection,

    and seasteads should have reinforced holds available,

    to insure that they stay attached.

    the size or shape of a hold doesn’t matter too much,

    as long as there is sufficient room to coil a hemp-rope several times.

    this tie-down hold is an international standard:

    http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg240/lokadin/boat-tie-down-.jpg

    though there are simpler shapes which are also used:

    see that last on is connected to some concrete, seemingly with some kind of buffer material.

    Anyhow so we have the “universal connectors” now, any of them is just fine,

    we can even make the connections more permanent for island purposes,

    by overlaying the rope with structural metal, and ferrocementing it together.

    in fact with rope, we could even embrace the whole boat, assuming it’s small enough or we have enough rope.

    Personally I think at this stage I’m gonna make a submersible sailboat in the shape of a water droplet. phi times longer than it is wide, with a pointy tip.

    it’s wide since seasteads are supposed to be stationary, the beam stability of a catamaran,

    and i figure it’s a displacement hull so can probably still get it up to 7 knots.

    though I’m thinking of pointing the tip into the wind when using it as a sailboat,

    perhaps switching it for underwater use, as rain drops have their tips at the top.

    then gonna sail it with a rope operated crab sail, that’s strong enough to sail using underwater currents.

    though the actual ropes and engines to turn them might be on deck in some hidden compartments, so that don’t have any through holes from outside to inside.

    can activate the rope pullers electronically.

    kites might make more sense underwater, but fish use fins.

    though maybe we could simply have some kind of hydro-power based on having different currents,

    so by dragging along at a different current some hydro-turbine, it would generate electricity, as it move through the alternative current waters, relative to the nearly stationary submarine in it’s current, which can also provide power for the propellers. admitedly it would cause some drag to use it. hopefully it has less drag than electricity it generates.

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    #11994
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    When someone has a good idea others want to copy it, so if “the industry” wants to develop a large market they should not patent or copyright key pieces of technology like connection systems, perhaps TSSI could act as a standards approval body, recieving this validation will be dependant on recipients sharing the technology or idea with other manufacturers.

    #11995
    Profile photo of J.L.-Frusha
    J.L.-Frusha
    Participant

    You’re talking about open-source as a mode of operation. Patent it and release it for not-for-profit use only.

    Later,

    J.L.F.

    Never be afraid to try something new…

    Remember, amateurs built the ark, professionals built the Titanic.

    #12005
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Not necessarily open source, just that others are allowed to use that idea.

    Many ideas which should be made standards are “proprietary” and not available for use by others, so they have to reinvent something which may be inferior and certainly incompatible.

    If we want 3 or 4 manufacturers building seasteads, it is important they they all follow a set of standards so that the seasteads will link up with each other.

Viewing 15 posts - 121 through 135 (of 155 total)

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