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A modular giant floating concrete island

Home Forums Community Dreaming / Crazy Ideas / Speculation A modular giant floating concrete island

This topic contains 29 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Snowmeow Snowmeow 3 years ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 30 total)
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  • #12821
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    I’ve actually already been looking into this. So this is probably where I’ll start. WHich would go hand in hand with a concrete platform floating somewhere that I could come down and dock to every now and then.

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    If you want to be on the water on a tight budget, forget about building for now. Building boats (or seasteads for that matter) is expensive, guys. Trust me on this one. The quick fix here is to take advantage of the soft boatsales market and get a dirt cheap houseboat, sailboat or powerboat, whatever you can liveaboard on, anchor it somewhere close to shore, live on it for free and save all your money while doing that and plan for the future. Fix that boat up bit so you can sell it for a profit next year, learn about the sea and become a sailor, a seafarer.

    Next, when you have some cash in your pocket and a solid plan in your mind, sell the “whatever you are on now”, take all that money you got, maybe find another sailor or two who share into your dream and are ready to match your investment, sign some partnership papers, and together, just do it. Whatever it is now, either if it’s a platform that you guys built from scratch with your own hand or if it’s 4 houseboats rafted up together, it is a step foward and nobody can take that away from you. It’s called a beginning. After that, you will really understand what it takes to live 12 nm, 100 nm, or 1000 nm offshore, in terms of money, discipline and knowlege of the whole process. Until then, just dreaming about it, it’s just fantasy.

    #12839
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    guys i still dont see how anything serious can be done on a hairstring budget. we’re gonna need investors’ capital and great models. (physical and operational models). but modularity is good.

    ____________

    My work

    #12841
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Models are good, investors are valuable, but an open forum for free thinking is priceless.

    This is a forum for different people in different places to come together with different ideas. If someone wants to float out on (logs,bottles,styrofoam,kelp,raft,barge,etc) and call it seasteading, who are you to tell them that they can’t? It’s true that anything major is going to need investors and a solid business plan, but this thread is about module floating structures not business proposals. Please don’t hijack it, start a separate thread if you want.

    There’s a lot of potential here, and several people are actually doing something.

    shredder7753 wrote:

    guys i still dont see how anything serious can be done on a hairstring budget. we’re gonna need investors’ capital and great models. (physical and operational models). but modularity is good.

    ____________

    My work

    #12843
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    woodie plz dont join the trash talk bandwagon. have some respect. i am entitled to my opinion. i stated my position as a part of this community, respectfully. i believe u made an error by indicating i was off-topic from the thread, when clearly i was not. did u miss the word “giant” in the title?

    the forum overall is not about the little clique of existing squabblers and their immediate plans. they’re welcome to do their thing and i’m welcome to do mine. we established that a few weeks ago. its about the spirit of seasteading and ALL who wish to contribute. try watching the videos that Patri has done and read the stuff he wrote. in the founders mind, and this is what he said, he wants to develop the potential for new forms of human governance. not tiny-pack-of-wolf governance. it has to start on the small but it must be scalable. it sure wont be “competitive governance” if it only works for 5 people and a knappy bunny rabbit.

    ____________

    My work

    #12846
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    If you want to be on the water on a tight budget, forget about building for now. Building boats (or seasteads for that matter) is expensive, guys. Trust me on this one. The quick fix here is to take advantage of the soft boatsales market and get a dirt cheap houseboat, sailboat or powerboat,

    I’d suggest sailboat, as it can actually get to the goal EEZ safely,

    wheras houseboat… not-so-much. though I agree the space would be valuable,

    perhaps a house-boat could be modified to be ocean-worthy, though might take a while.

    It would be great to at least have a taste of that freedom we’re talking about outside the EEZ. mmm salty air.

    whatever you can liveaboard on, anchor it somewhere close to shore, live on it for free and save all your money while doing that and plan for the future. Fix that boat up bit so you can sell it for a profit next year, learn about the sea and become a sailor, a seafarer.

    totally, I’d add in sustenance forager (fish, plants/algae, crustaceans).

    Next, when you have some cash in your pocket and a solid plan in your mind, sell the “whatever you are on now”, take all that money you got, maybe find another sailor or two who share into your dream and are ready to match your investment, sign some partnership papers, and together, just do it.

    mmm, I think it might be best to keep with concrete craft you’re hopefully already on,

    can easily get new members if you can feed them and house them,

    even if they have to do some work for it.

    As the saying goes, “all in the same boat”,

    so the large boat or ocean-worthy house-boat could be the seastead.

    can start with a sailboat, get yourself a spouse, who’d love to “sail away with you”.

    Once you have a few members, could build a larger boat as a group, that house-boat seastead,

    then you could use your old sailboat as a ferry from the seastead to the land.

    While you’re on the sailboat, can live on thee anchor, and ferry yourself via dinghy or some such.

    Whatever it is now, either if it’s a platform that you guys built from scratch with your own hand or if it’s 4 houseboats rafted up together, it is a step foward and nobody can take that away from you. It’s called a beginning.

    Aye Aye, Captain! ;-)

    After that, you will really understand what it takes to live 12 nm, 100 nm, or 1000 nm offshore, in terms of money, discipline and knowlege of the whole process. Until then, just dreaming about it, it’s just fantasy.

    Total agreement. :-) *hugs*

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #12850
    Profile photo of Matt
    Matt
    Participant

    Note on Shimizu:

    These Japanese companies do these projects as a legitimate way of gaining publicity. No one understands otherwise (although places like inhabitat etc, seem to). Remember X-Seed 4000?

    That said, there’s no reason individual members can do the same.

    #12852
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    elspru wrote:

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    If you want to be on the water on a tight budget, forget about building for now. Building boats (or seasteads for that matter) is expensive, guys. Trust me on this one. The quick fix here is to take advantage of the soft boatsales market and get a dirt cheap houseboat, sailboat or powerboat,

    I’d suggest sailboat, as it can actually get to the goal EEZ safely,

    wheras houseboat… not-so-much. though I agree the space would be valuable,

    perhaps a house-boat could be modified to be ocean-worthy, though might take a while.

    It would be great to at least have a taste of that freedom we’re talking about outside the EEZ. mmm salty air.

    [/quote]

    That was my first thought as well. I’ve been looking at various boats around this area (southern California) and have yet to find any houseboats that look remotely oceanworthy. I’ve also found that you can get an older fiberglass 30+’ powerboat for pretty cheap ($10k+). Sailboats, which have far less interior space than powerboats, go for quite a bit more ($25k+).

    whatever you can liveaboard on, anchor it somewhere close to shore, live on it for free and save all your money while doing that and plan for the future. Fix that boat up bit so you can sell it for a profit next year, learn about the sea and become a sailor, a seafarer.

    This is what I am planning to do if I can find a boat with enough space cheap enough. Though I’m looking at trying to find a livabord slip, which is very difficult to do in SoCal.

    Next, when you have some cash in your pocket and a solid plan in your mind, sell the “whatever you are on now”, take all that money you got, maybe find another sailor or two who share into your dream and are ready to match your investment, sign some partnership papers, and together, just do it.

    mmm, I think it might be best to keep with concrete craft you’re hopefully already on,

    can easily get new members if you can feed them and house them,

    even if they have to do some work for it.

    As the saying goes, “all in the same boat”,

    so the large boat or ocean-worthy house-boat could be the seastead.

    can start with a sailboat, get yourself a spouse, who’d love to “sail away with you”.

    Once you have a few members, could build a larger boat as a group, that house-boat seastead,

    then you could use your old sailboat as a ferry from the seastead to the land.

    While you’re on the sailboat, can live on thee anchor, and ferry yourself via dinghy or some such.

    Whatever it is now, either if it’s a platform that you guys built from scratch with your own hand or if it’s 4 houseboats rafted up together, it is a step foward and nobody can take that away from you. It’s called a beginning.

    Aye Aye, Captain! ;-)

    After that, you will really understand what it takes to live 12 nm, 100 nm, or 1000 nm offshore, in terms of money, discipline and knowlege of the whole process. Until then, just dreaming about it, it’s just fantasy.

    Total agreement. :-) *hugs*

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    [/quote]

    I agree. I think this would be a good first step, especially if you live in an area with rediculously high land prices, as I do.

    #12854
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Does anyone have any other ideas for modular shapes?

    I think so far we have Will’s Cube, Octavian’s Kite, and Snow’s Hexatoons.

    Are there any other shapes that might be a viable option? Anyone think a triangle or pentagon would be good?

    So far I don’t think I’ve seen many people talk about connecting these modular structures together. That seems like an important step to me. Most of the normal structural things I could think of probably wouldn’t last very long at sea. Does anyone have any good ideas?

    #12855
    Profile photo of goedjn
    goedjn
    Participant

    R wrote:

    Does anyone have any other ideas for modular shapes?

    I think so far we have Will’s Cube, Octavian’s Kite, and Snow’s Hexatoons.

    Are there any other shapes that might be a viable option? Anyone think a triangle or pentagon would be good?

    So far I don’t think I’ve seen many people talk about connecting these modular structures together. That seems like an important step to me. Most of the normal structural things I could think of probably wouldn’t last very long at sea. Does anyone have any good ideas?

    Rhombus. with 60/120 degree internal angles. You can plug those together into hexagons, stars, or a bigger rhombus, and they should be easier to tow around than shapes with a higher beam/length ratio. And if you really want to, you can later add other angled rhombi with the same side length. As for connections, I’m visualizing something similar to tractor/trailer hitches. At least two per mating face. Or, if you use standoff connectors, the component shapes could be arbitrary., and you’d only have to standardize the connectors.

    #12857
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    R wrote:

    Does anyone have any other ideas for modular shapes?

    I think so far we have Will’s Cube, Octavian’s Kite, and Snow’s Hexatoons.

    Are there any other shapes that might be a viable option? Anyone think a triangle or pentagon would be good?

    So far I don’t think I’ve seen many people talk about connecting these modular structures together. That seems like an important step to me. Most of the normal structural things I could think of probably wouldn’t last very long at sea. Does anyone have any good ideas?

    when i get up tommorow i’ll try to remember to re-post my models of a tri-stead and a cube-stead. square is a good idea in my opinion. when u really sit and think about it, only triangle and square will truly flex with the swells. triangle and other shapesmake weird shaped rooms. in physics they teach us that squares are weak, but if u use good materials it should be fine. with a dynamically positioned square you would point a corner toward the current anyway.

    stay tuned…

    ____________

    My work

    #12863
    Profile photo of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    My “$10,000 substead” thread got derailed by apathy and ridiculous self imposed design specs. It would be trivial to make a platform which allows you to sink, and raise the ship at command for significantly less money. The ultimate conclusion was that you can get 48 hours air supply simply by building a large enough geodesic dome/platform. The cost of any other form of airstorage didn’t have nearly the ROI that increased living space provided. By that point, I was too tired and bored to re-crunch the numbers to determine the cost of 48 worth of structure, or how many hours of air you get for $10,000 but I expect the answer is < $10,000 and >48.

    If you “oh shit” every time a storm comes in(choose a location with not too many storms/seasonal predictability) and have access to transportation, the amount of concrete is trivial. With a SCUBA compressor, you could ride it down to 5M depths with no DCS concerns. With the use of soda lime rebreather technology, your bottom time increases significantly. Further, 5M of compression isn’t that much in lost volume. If you don’t want to shell out for a SCUBA compressor, you can likely get away with a regular shop compressor like some of the more ghetto SNUBA outfits pull.

    The middle of the road option is to machine your own graphite compressor pistons, and make your own air filters.

    In any case, the only reason nobody is keen on the idea is they don’t like the idea of evacuating during storms. Either that or they don’t believe it’s doable, which would be absurd, as it’s obviously possible.

    Hell, one of these days, I’m going to take a staple gun, inflatable raft, air compressor, tarp and a bag of cement to the beach and I’ll just build one. I’ll call it the “floating saucer” and will use the novelty aspect to make money until someone finds a reason to shut me down.

    If you want anything that costs more than you’re willing to invest personally, start a business and get venture capital. TSI is doing their own thing so don’t count on them, but don’t be surprised if they want to talk to you after the fact.

    I’ve long ago given up on Amish “raising a barn” type projects. It’s not that they aren’t possible, it’s just it takes a leader to make them happen, and nobody ever steps up, and for good reason. We’ve all been burned by group projects before. We all know how thankless the ROI is for the leadership. Human nature can’t even hold together a band of musicians for any significant length of time. Random strangers as room mates? Fuck that, if you’re half as crazy as I am(and honestly, most of us are) I couldn’t live with you. I have a hard enough time living by myself.

    If you can’t, you need help. If you can, why would you want to share?

    There’s lots of philosophies to crap like this, but mine is you have to have credibility or collateral to get away with Donald Trump sized proposals.

    Pledgebank.com

    Kickstarter.com

    It really is a matter of: “Put up or shut up”. The stakes are an air compressor and a couple bags of concrete. If the lot of you can put together $1000 in a paypal account of a trusted escrow, you could put something in the water. If you get some materials donated(and this is crazy enough that donations are a GIVEN) that same $1000 will go further than you think.

    Make it a fundraiser, fly Wil in as the keynote speaker, and from the stage of your floating greenhouse, ask for investors to make a bigger one before high tide drags it out to sea. Then sink it in to the ocean, ride back to shore in a jetski, and 5 minutes later the arduino will fire the pnuematic solenoid and the scuba tanks will pop the fucker back to the surface in time for a bunch of fireworks to go off.

    Then hand out some business cards with your kickstarter on it, hop on a motorcycle, and jump the shark the fuck out of there.

    $1000 buys more than a few yards of concrete. Use a giant pile of sand on an elevated platform as your form, mould it, pour it, let it cure, then kick out it’s legs at high tide and fuck off in to the ocean.

    #12865
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    man, that was deep.

    ____________

    My work

    #13395
    Profile photo of Seasteader-
    Seasteader-
    Participant

    Try this one, if we get a series of stripped down earth filled supertankers (all equipment and engines removed and then planted iwth trees instead) then anchor then seed corals in an appropriately shallow spot, we’d immdiately have an ‘island’ capable of supporting whoever paid for it.

    The below example might be 5K per person after all the useful equipment is sold. No more taxes, no more red tape and a simple constitution should be in place immediately.

    For 10 people, each could have at least 2 stories of 28m2, not withstanding any extended pontoon structures tethered to the series of connected ships?

    http://commercial.apolloduck.com/display.phtml?aid=182292

    Thoughts?

    #13405
    Profile photo of Seasteader-
    Seasteader-
    Participant

    I would think if you started with a 25x25m platform that anyone could add onto for a relatively low cost you would quickly have a very large seastead, with a variety of people and no real constraint other than money and weight/displacement. It could start out with nothing but a platform. Then maybe someone will add a few meters and put up a wind turbine and sell electricity to Ocean who opens a clinic which has people that work for him that build themsleves some houses. Some of them bring children and someone opens a school and before you know it you have a whole civilization complete with houses, businesses, hospitals, schools, etc. etc. etc. etc.

    I am totally for this idea. The thing is getting the platforms professionally made but that do not cost too much as well. I’m abit mainland 50-100kms or so, with 200-300 fully mature 20+ year old logs of rubberwood from a plantation I own (these are for latex collection but can double as rubberwood), if you can cover the logistics/deliveries or what-not, I’d be willing to contribute the entirity of the wood to a Seastead in a quake-free, hurricane, non-polluted location if you can confirm that someone is willing to provide the concrete, and building/tethering of the platforms.

    Private message for details.

    This escrow thing should be done in collaboration with Seasteading.org . . .

    Cheapo Ideas For Cheapo Medical/Engineering Personnel

    A person untrained from the 3rd world could be offered for understudy as a medical/engineering personnel WITHOUT the high fees. anyone ready to take up some homeless but quite well bred people shackled by formality of paper qualification requirements? They could very well practice on the SS, but best should be understudying for a period of time first. You do not need a degree or an institution to euthanise someone or wire up a car for example. You do need people to send the medications/equipment though. Just some thoughts on hiring of people.

    Total Physical Freedom and Total Mental Autonomy, Tempered with Common Sense.

    Utopia – Capitalism with Socialist Caps on Personal Wealth – US$20 Million
    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=36665503866

    #16139
    Profile photo of Snowmeow
    Snowmeow
    Participant

    Seasteader- wrote:
    Try this one, if we get a series of stripped down earth filled supertankers (all equipment and engines removed and then planted iwth trees instead) then anchor then seed corals in an appropriately shallow spot, we’d immdiately have an ‘island’ capable of supporting whoever paid for it. The below example might be 5K per person after all the useful equipment is sold. No more taxes, no more red tape and a simple constitution should be in place immediately. For 10 people, each could have at least 2 stories of 28m2, not withstanding any extended pontoon structures tethered to the series of connected ships? http://commercial.apolloduck.com/display.phtml?aid=182292 Thoughts?

    Ok, now that things came back to normal, I can analyze this.

    Earth-filled supertankers, even with the extra weight, are vulnerable to strong waves and the worst enemy of big steel vessels: Rust. Solution? Use the steel hulls as molds to make concrete hulls, if is desirable that the structure endure for more than 50 years. OR, a little more bold concept, huge concrete hulls OUTSIDE the steel hulls… OK, forget it.

    Shallow spots? there aren’t many outside the predetermined EEZs. Because this, I insist in semi-submerged flotation, as in semi-submersible oil rigs. The structures noted by me would be partially filled with water (Or earth) to increase weight and take 50% of the structure underwater.

    Back to the supertanker, that are also a good idea (Just needing to be refined) for a start-up seastead (I said START-UP, not UPSTART!), we need two things that are crucial: 1) A way to protect steel hulls from rusting, at least the underwater part; 2) A way to keep the vessel firmly tied in its position, even under strong storms. For the first, I thought in that plastic foam used in freezers as an outer layer. For the second, I thought in connect the vessels, just like my “hexatoon” idea.

    ______________________________________

    “A Dream you dream Alone, is a Dream you dream Alone; But a Dream you dream Together becomes Reality.” Raul Seixas

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