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A modular giant floating concrete island

Home Forums Community Dreaming / Crazy Ideas / Speculation A modular giant floating concrete island

This topic contains 29 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Snowmeow Snowmeow 3 years, 1 month ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 30 total)
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  • #1331
    Profile photo of Snowmeow
    Snowmeow
    Participant

    A project that I am working at, in turtle steps, is about to make an island with modular, honeycomb-shaped concrete sections, and extend its size little by little until get the size of a considerably big island (500 sq Km). It would have space for small cities, interlinked by roads, and, why not, a forest aboard.

    I got the idea after see the photo of the Troll A platform during it’s basis construction:

    Look the size of the platform basis comparing to other known structures:

    Other similar platform, also floating:

    It would do a good seastead, and would be very big!

    ______________________________________

    “A Dream you dream Alone, is a Dream you dream Alone; But a Dream you dream Together becomes Reality.” Raul Seixas

    #11184
    Profile photo of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    Suggests 5 gallon buckets to me.

    #11186

    It can not be that “giant” – because if it where giant you need a giant budget to build it. The structure in the pictures above supplies half of europe with energy – so THEY do have a giant budgets and giant incomes, giant bank loans, a giant pool of shareholders, where will those resources come from if the funcion is only “housing”…

    If you have 120 USD/day and body available like the cruiseship industry – you can operate like the cruiseship industry – but if you want do “suburban housing” you must do it at “suburban housing prices” – you can check the Apply Seasteading Concrete Shell Structures – thread on some of the issues related to this topic.

    Why only concrete shell structures will lead to seasteading, why only flatraft solutions have a chance to supply living space at the required cost levels… why the module size must be “modest” instead of “giant”.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    #11238
    Profile photo of Snowmeow
    Snowmeow
    Participant

    ellmer - http://yook3.com wrote:
    It can not be that “giant” – because if it where giant you need a giant budget to build it. The structure in the pictures above supplies half of europe with energy – so THEY do have a giant budgets and giant incomes, giant bank loans, a giant pool of shareholders, where will those resources come from if the funcion is only “housing”…

    Oh, I got misunderstood: I don’t plan to begin big, it would be – Really – Insane. Maybe it wouldn’t be so big as the Troll basis shown in the pic above, but I plan to “sell the idea” as a scientific floating platform, that begin small, grows, and get a little bigger in a term of, let’s shot, 20 years. It’s an immature idea still and I hope to refine this idea reading the opinions of people here.

    ellmer - http://yook3.com wrote:
    If you have 120 USD/day and body available like the cruiseship industry – you can operate like the cruiseship industry – but if you want do “suburban housing” you must do it at “suburban housing prices” – you can check the Apply Seasteading Concrete Shell Structures – thread on some of the issues related to this topic.

    Pricing would be the last thing tht I have to worry, I am thinking first in the feasibility of the whole project. But my basic idea is, the bigger it gets, the cheaper it gets.

    ellmer - http://yook3.com wrote:
    Why only concrete shell structures will lead to seasteading, why only flatraft solutions have a chance to supply living space at the required cost levels… why the module size must be “modest” instead of “giant”.

    Of course, I am thinking in to make it small, but to grow little by little. And i am not thinking in a flat raft, but in a semisubmerged structure.

    ______________________________________

    “A Dream you dream Alone, is a Dream you dream Alone; But a Dream you dream Together becomes Reality.” Raul Seixas

    #11241

    Once assembled the structure you are proposing will be a “modular flat raft” structure it will behave in the high seas very much as Kon-Tiki did. The technique is widley in use in the oil/gas industry and for floating docking and load terminals.

    Freedomship was proposed to assemble in the same way, japanese floating airport too. The use of ballast water is a widley used technique in ships – i would not necessaryly call it semisubmersible – this term is used for a specific type of drilling platforms with quite different construction criteria.

    Looks like a good plan – float something out in modest scale for testing purpose – publish the results – this will move seasteading forward.

    PS – why would you load the floating elements on barges to bring them to the building site when they can float anyhow – just tow them out.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures

    #11245
    Profile photo of Snowmeow
    Snowmeow
    Participant

    ellmer - http://yook3.com wrote:
    PS – why would you load the floating elements on barges to bring them to the building site when they can float anyhow – just tow them out.

    Oh, I forgot… These images were not made by me, I copied them from the ambitious Japanese project Shimizu Green Float, that resembles a growing of Lilypads and (Not confirmed) will be built in Dubai.

    They planned to use barges to build more modules without a need to bring them from a continent or island, because they planned to make these “cities” in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, in the equatorial region.

    My plan is different: Firstly, build the modules in the continent, towing then to the area where the island will be built; and later, when the island get the desired initial size (And required area), transfer the module factory facility to the very island.

    ______________________________________

    “A Dream you dream Alone, is a Dream you dream Alone; But a Dream you dream Together becomes Reality.” Raul Seixas

    #11248

    The shimizu guys look more like computer kids playing around with a nice design program – they will have to actually build something and float out something before they can be taken serious. Once things are floating on modest scale you have a credible claim to say “let`s do that – just make it hundred times bigger” – as long as you have no small scale pilot project to show and no large scale finance plan with real world investors standing behind the idea – it is kind of “wild phantasy no cable to earth business” – Heyerdahl at least floated over the pacific in a flat raft – that is SOMETHING …

    Dubai will do it – have heard that before…hydropolis underwater hotel, submersible yachts, etc… etc… etc…never happened no building start, finance trouble, ….project end…

    I personally prefer one ton of “real world floating model” over one ton of plans, ideas, concept, and project papers.

    Wil

    #12289
    Profile photo of ChaseD702
    ChaseD702
    Participant

    These are some interesting ideas. I suppose the expense could be offset by using it as a floating marine research institute as well. There seem to be a lot of seasteading type projects out there. I wonder which will become a reality first.

    #12782
    Profile photo of cabosa
    cabosa
    Participant

    hello, im drawing and projecting a floating city , a seautopia, and for the past year is my hobby. The all project is based on one idea, simbiotic sincronization betwen natural sea life and man made structures as a new concept of paradise. will be using a floating lattice for an updraft tower connected to OTEC , and at the periferic of the colector field theres the towed concret barges for the city , imagine a modern building laing down on its side and now 1221 of them all conected and a second circule with 2513 sections conected by bridges to the 1st circule. yes it s big , but also are the problems we face and the forces of nature that we want to tackle only a great power or civilization will be able to do the job. complements from Azores.

    #12786
    Profile photo of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    OTEC is a hingepin issue. If you can’t get it working, your project is doomed, and getting OTEC working is a huge undertaking. Working fluid selection is going to make or break you. Corrosion maintenence/materials costs and pump electricity are your largest liability.

    The entire concept is plagued by carnot efficiency. The low temperature differential dooms the technology to a low efficiency. The fact that the solar energy is free goes a long way towards correcting this.

    Since it’s all about ROI, you have to focus on reducing the cost of production. Forget about perfecting efficiency. Make it cheap and you may have something. Efficiency is all about the science of diminishing returns as you chase friction and parasitic losses. Pretty soon you end up going down the “output is ^3 to $, while cost is ^2″ rabbit whole that turns projects in to boondoggles.

    High efficiency demands expensive bearings, turbines, and materials.

    Low efficiency is low cost.

    If you automate everything, low efficiency doesn’t matter cause you don’t have to pay a salary.

    Get one working in your bathtub before thinking about building a large scale version.

    #12811
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    What is a seastead?

    IMHO a seastead is just a floating structure that people live on. Sure, some people want to build houses on them, while others want hopitals, parks, power plants, what have you. But a seastead is really just a floating structure that people live on (whether it’s perminant/semi-perminant, one person/thousands of people), am I right?

    This (see Snowmeow’s post below), and Will’s cubic meter tests, bring me to an interesting idea, what if someone came up with an idea like this?

    “I’m going to make hollow cubes of 1 meter per side and a way to connect them together in any configuration. I’m going to build 50 of these and connect them so that I have a platform that is 25x25x2m at a cost of $15000 USD (Using Will’s design and figure fo roughly $300/m3). I will then ancor this platform 15nm off the coast of _____. If anyone would like to join me in this endeavor they can send me funds ($300/m3) or come out and work with me, and whatever they want to add to my original platform will be theirs to use as they see fit. This offer is open indefinitely and anyone may build as many units as they like.”

    Something like this would give an average person the ability to make themselves some space at sea, at a very affordable cost.

    I would think if you started with a 25x25m platform that anyone could add onto for a relatively low cost you would quickly have a very large seastead, with a variety of people and no real constraint other than money and weight/displacement. It could start out with nothing but a platform. Then maybe someone will add a few meters and put up a wind turbine and sell electricity to Ocean who opens a clinic which has people that work for him that build themsleves some houses. Some of them bring children and someone opens a school and before you know it you have a whole civilization complete with houses, businesses, hospitals, schools, etc. etc. etc. etc.

    If someone were to do something like this I would chip in a few hundred or maybe even a couple thousand to add a few pieces on. I probably wouldn’t build enough to put a house on or anything, but my cubes could be part of a communal area, and maybe afford me use of a temporary boat slip should I want to come hang out for a while now and then.

    Does anyone else think this would be a good idea? That this could be the most IMMEDIATE way to seastead?

    Snowmeow wrote:

    It can not be that “giant” – because if it where giant you need a giant budget to build it. The structure in the pictures above supplies half of europe with energy – so THEY do have a giant budgets and giant incomes, giant bank loans, a giant pool of shareholders, where will those resources come from if the funcion is only “housing”…

    Oh, I got misunderstood: I don’t plan to begin big, it would be – Really – Insane. Maybe it wouldn’t be so big as the Troll basis shown in the pic above, but I plan to “sell the idea” as a scientific floating platform, that begin small, grows, and get a little bigger in a term of, let’s shot, 20 years. It’s an immature idea still and I hope to refine this idea reading the opinions of people here.

    ellmer - http://yook3.com wrote:
    If you have 120 USD/day and body available like the cruiseship industry – you can operate like the cruiseship industry – but if you want do “suburban housing” you must do it at “suburban housing prices” – you can check the Apply Seasteading Concrete Shell Structures – thread on some of the issues related to this topic.

    Pricing would be the last thing tht I have to worry, I am thinking first in the feasibility of the whole project. But my basic idea is, the bigger it gets, the cheaper it gets.

    ellmer - http://yook3.com wrote:
    Why only concrete shell structures will lead to seasteading, why only flatraft solutions have a chance to supply living space at the required cost levels… why the module size must be “modest” instead of “giant”.

    Of course, I am thinking in to make it small, but to grow little by little. And i am not thinking in a flat raft, but in a semisubmerged structure.

    ______________________________________

    “A Dream you dream Alone, is a Dream you dream Alone; But a Dream you dream Together becomes Reality.” Raul Seixas

    [/quote]

    #12812
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    again, in the real life, it’s not that simple. We had few threads here about “doing something”, the most recent one was Wil’s and a older one of mine about the cost of starting seasteading @ a small scale. And both faded away,…mostly after deteriorating into off the topic, useless, endless posts. So, the best think to do is just do it yourself or join somebody who is doing that, instead of attempting to “bring people together” which has been tried and failed miserably.

    #12814
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    um… i like R B Woods idea. its pretty much like Wils idea from the thread about doing something (instead of talking). im a broke azz dude but, in theory it seems kinda smart. if enough people gave Wil some money he could build the cubes, take them out past the 12 mile mark on a barge and… and… just use a massive solid weight of concrete or something as an anchor. it’ll move a little but not too much. and then just like Wood said connect them up, put up a plastic palm tree, some fake grass, fuckin party time bitches! you need a special code system to prove to any squatters that your not lying when you tell them its yours and that they can party with you but they gotta let you on board the float.

    ____________

    My work

    #12815
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    again, in the real life, it’s not that simple. We had few threads here about “doing something”, the most recent one was Wil’s and a older one of mine about the cost of starting seasteading @ a small scale. And both faded away,…mostly after deteriorating into off the topic, useless, endless posts. So, the best think to do is just do it yourself or join somebody who is doing that, instead of attempting to “bring people together” which has been tried and failed miserably.

    It seems like threads get hijacked here pretty easily. I’ve seen quite a few good ideas get swallowed up. So I’m putting out there that if someone wanted to do a project like this I would be in (for a small amount). We just need to find someone with a decent chunk of change and a good idea to plant a seed, I think there are plenty of people to water and help it grow.

    Nice comment Shred. Maybe we should start really small and just make a party barge =P. There are lots of places where we could legally park a party barge close to shore, add to a littl ebit and when it gets too big we can tow outside the territorial waters.

    There are lots of ways you could verify ownership. Plaques, names inscribed in the concrete blocks, ID Cards showing which block numbers are yours, ship manifest. Any number fo things. Those would be things to think abot after plans have been made and once funds are bing collected. Right now I want us to make a plan.

    So far we have cubes and hexatubes, I still haven’t really seen any good ways of connecting the different pieces together. Just about anything metal would rust, but most other viable materials are too expensive or difficult to produce. Does anyone have a good way of connected a bunch of concrete structures together? A couple pieces of rebar, or the basalt fibers, sticking out of finished pieces to stick into new pieces as they’re being made, so you can completely encase any exposed metal in concrete?

    #12820
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    If you want to be on the water on a tight budget, forget about building for now. Building boats (or seasteads for that matter) is expensive, guys. Trust me on this one. The quick fix here is to take advantage of the soft boatsales market and get a dirt cheap houseboat, sailboat or powerboat, whatever you can liveaboard on, anchor it somewhere close to shore, live on it for free and save all your money while doing that and plan for the future. Fix that boat up bit so you can sell it for a profit next year, learn about the sea and become a sailor, a seafarer.

    Next, when you have some cash in your pocket and a solid plan in your mind, sell the “whatever you are on now”, take all that money you got, maybe find another sailor or two who share into your dream and are ready to match your investment, sign some partnership papers, and together, just do it. Whatever it is now, either if it’s a platform that you guys built from scratch with your own hand or if it’s 4 houseboats rafted up together, it is a step foward and nobody can take that away from you. It’s called a beginning. After that, you will really understand what it takes to live 12 nm, 100 nm, or 1000 nm offshore, in terms of money, discipline and knowlege of the whole process. Until then, just dreaming about it, it’s just fantasy.

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