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minimum size of a seasteading platform module – float out

Home Forums Archive TSI Engineering minimum size of a seasteading platform module – float out

This topic contains 9 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of shredder7753 shredder7753 3 years, 3 months ago.

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)
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  • #1340

    Minimum Size

    European Submarine Structures AB floaing out a base module in the bay of cartagena. Those moduls can be asambled to platforms of any size (only the sky and the budget is the limit) – and do a much better job in providing buoyancy and “raft up ability” than the barrels of ephemerisle or the bottles of Richard Sowas Spiral Island.

    Management by doing it – me in the blue shirt…

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    #11277
    Avatar of TheTimPotter
    TheTimPotter
    Participant

    Looks pretty neat. I have a couple questions.

    Do these have an open side while in use in the sea? How do they attach? Do they stack? What is the cost? What were you guys doing in this photo?

    #11280
    Avatar of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    Minimum Size

    European Submarine Structures AB floaing out a base module in the bay of cartagena. Those moduls can be asambled to platforms of any size (only the sky and the budget is the limit) – and do a much better job in providing buoyancy and “raft up ability” than the barrels of ephemerisle or the bottles of Richard Sowas Spiral Island.

    Management by doing it – me in the blue shirt…

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    I honestly can’t understand what’s going on in that picture. Can you post more/explain?

    #11376

    What we are doing is basicly apply what was mentioned in the ( apply-seasteading-concrete-shell-structures ) tread -

    Offshore industry has found out that the only building material that can create maintenance free platforms is concrete. A big platform must be modular as there is no practical way to build it in one piece. The size of the pieces can be city block sized if you have billon budgets available, ship sized if you have million budgets available, but you can even size it down to bottle size (richard sowa – bottle island) if you have almost no budget. What matters is bouancy and raft-up-ability.

    Ephemereisland was built on barrel floats connected with wood. I think we can do better in various aspects the barril floats (do not stand longer than a year in saltwater) – their raftability – (round floats are difficult to connect) – the structure (wood rotts away within months).

    We kept the practical barrel size (1 cubic meter of bouyancy) so it can be handled without cranes (see picture) we changed the material (thin rusting steel and sun degradent plastics to ever lasting concrete) – we changed the form (round and hard to raft up to square and easy raft up)

    We are now building a couple of dozends of those elements and raft them up to a floating platform of unlimited size – imagine you can expand your living space at a rate of 1 squaremeter dayly – in a couple of months you would have hundreds of squaremeter of living space – not bad!. – and you can still keep expanding as the horizontal space is not limited on the ocean.

    So what we are trying to do is “richard sowa on steroids” – Richard Sowa Spiral Island – and what you see is the first of our “bottles” being floated out and the raft-up of the first modules.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    #11278

    The base module is intended to be a building block much like a brick in land based construction just buoyant – and as we are on water the bricks can be bigger as movement and assembly is easier – we build them open on the upper side to be able to do a check for watertightness. It leaves also an opportunity to use the space inside the module as tank or store volume. They float with 80 cm freeboard – very much the same as a usual boat. In fact a man can use them as a boat to row out to the building (assembly) site. They can be stacked, they can be attached to each other by methods as performed in land based concrete structure building – by concrete beams, by grouting techniques, by prestress and posttension cables.

    What we are testing here is, if we are within the weight limit that allows to handle the modules without cranes. We want them to be able to be transported by truck unloaded at the waterfront with no crane equipment, then put afloat just by manual labor (3 men). This is of paramount importance for the cost structure.

    We are also testing if the module is structural sufficiently sound to take the forces of land transport. – it is.

    What concerns final cost calculation i have my proven method of exact cost calculation, do a pilot project, have a look at the total cost, divide trough the number of cubes created. – Only this gives you the complete picture and only this, is what i want to write into the business plans.

    In general i can say that we are inside the limits of 331 Euro per ton of displacement building cost that we are handling as general cost structure guidline. What comes next is floating out a dozend of cubes and test them in different assemblies….

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    #11390
    Avatar of Farmer
    Farmer
    Participant



    Can I suggest the tetrahedron? It has to be formed into square sides for living space because everything we make and own is square but it is stronger and more stable than the cube.

    " />
    Makes good 2D shapes

    " />

    Makes good 3D shapes

    " />

    Because each corner is the centerpoint of a sphere it distributes the weight more uniformly. Stress is shared over the lattice.

    " />

    Also, very good work. Thank you for sharing this with us.

    #11392
    Avatar of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    What we are doing is basicly apply what was mentioned in the ( apply-seasteading-concrete-shell-structures ) tread -

    Offshore industry has found out that the only building material that can create maintenance free platforms is concrete. A big platform must be modular as there is no practical way to build it in one piece. The size of the pieces can be city block sized if you have billon budgets available, ship sized if you have million budgets available, but you can even size it down to bottle size (richard sowa – bottle island) if you have almost no budget. What matters is bouancy and raft-up-ability.

    Ephemereisland was built on barrel floats connected with wood. I think we can do better in various aspects the barril floats (do not stand longer than a year in saltwater) – their raftability – (round floats are difficult to connect) – the structure (wood rotts away within months).

    We kept the practical barrel size (1 cubic meter of bouyancy) so it can be handled without cranes (see picture) we changed the material (thin rusting steel and sun degradent plastics to ever lasting concrete) – we changed the form (round and hard to raft up to square and easy raft up)

    We are now building a couple of dozends of those elements and raft them up to a floating platform of unlimited size – imagine you can expand your living space at a rate of 1 squaremeter dayly – in a couple of months you would have hundreds of squaremeter of living space – not bad!. – and you can still keep expanding as the horizontal space is not limited on the ocean.

    So what we are trying to do is “richard sowa on steroids” – Richard Sowa Spiral Island – and what you see is the first of our “bottles” being floated out and the raft-up of the first modules.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    Great work! How are you bolting them together? Is there any advantage to a draft angle on the interior?

    If you poured a cement truck sized batch, you could remove reusable forms made from steel weldments with a crane if there was a draft. The effeciency advantage vs cost of plywood and labor probably doesn’t justify the fascillities for such a process, although a gallows/bridge where the finished parts drop right in to the water would be cool, once again: it needlessly limits production capacity from dependancy on specialized fascilities. I imagine an assembly line using forms on pallets would be the most efficient way of mass producing these.

    At first I was concerned about ice formation, but that’s not even a consideration for some of the most promising climates for seasteading anyway. Cold water has pykrete. Warm water is more enjoyable and has ocean thermal energy advantages.

    How long until the datahaven and a nuclear reactor are done? :P

    #11397

    tusavision, i am not a big fan of bolts for holding things together in a concrete float. If you check on “steel bolt rusting” on a dock in tropical saltwater conditions after a couple of years you will probably agree. We have considered in detail cement truck sized elements but if you check on the cost development as soon you start to use “industrial tools” like mix trucks, cranes, etc in a pilot project you will find that a the “businessplan becomes much more feasible when you do it the way we do it.

    If you ever experienced a mix truck order jammed in traffic while the 15 workers are waiting doing nothing while the material starts curing and you can do nothing about it, you will know what i am talking about. What we want to achieve in process management is a flexible, continous, bullet prove, process that gets things in place – every hour, every day, every week.

    We try to implement a process that brings a squaremeter of platform in place every single day so that a two man team should be able to create a 30 squaremeter platform in one month. A 20 man team should be able to create the same platform in 3 days.

    I can see no problem to create 1000 cubes a day just in the area of cartagena – so as soon as the budget is there – the datahaven, or a float for a power plant can be built within a few weeks – it is question of money and financing more than a question of feasibility.

    As things go now we are burning money and have a squaremeter of platform output that places things in a general area of 331 Euro per squaremeter living space – if you check it the per squaremeter living space cost in urban areas is considerable higher – so i think we are able to offer a “alternative floating lifstyle in the caribbean” at a cost that could be already attractive for many people. We just have to build the “model house” and sell the living style.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    #11402
    Avatar of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    Makes perfect sense. I’m really starting to like concrete. It’s a liberating material. Allows structures to be build for practically free.

    Do you have any interest in experimenting with seacrete? I’ve been eyeing up the jettys at the beach and I really want to plug in to the wall outlet and start electrodepositing seacrete on some scale models. I wouldn’t even know where to start on getting permission to do such a thing. It’s tempting to just bury a long extension cord and walk it out in to the ocean.

    The reason I ask is while this platform is anchored off shore undergoing proof of concept testing: do you have any interest/ideas in experimenting with power distribution to seasteads?

    The generator solution isn’t really ideal, but you can’t exactly beam it with laser beams yet. Solar or nuclear are ideal, and neither is really a cost effective option.

    Has the subject of power transfer from land to boat been discussed? I’m beginning to think concrete submersible hydrogen tank AUVs? You electro-crack the water on shore using your wall outlet, and then pump it in to your carrier pidgeons of the sea. They ferry it to your seastead using a unobtanium hydrogen fuel cell for propulsion?

    tusavision, i am not a big fan of bolts for holding things together in a concrete float. If you check on “steel bolt rusting” on a dock in tropical saltwater conditions after a couple of years you will probably agree. We have considered in detail cement truck sized elements but if you check on the cost development as soon you start to use “industrial tools” like mix trucks, cranes, etc in a pilot project you will find that a the “businessplan becomes much more feasible when you do it the way we do it.

    If you ever experienced a mix truck order jammed in traffic while the 15 workers are waiting doing nothing while the material starts curing and you can do nothing about it, you will know what i am talking about. What we want to achieve in process management is a flexible, continous, bullet prove, process that gets things in place – every hour, every day, every week.

    We try to implement a process that brings a squaremeter of platform in place every single day so that a two man team should be able to create a 30 squaremeter platform in one month. A 20 man team should be able to create the same platform in 3 days.

    I can see no problem to create 1000 cubes a day just in the area of cartagena – so as soon as the budget is there – the datahaven, or a float for a power plant can be built within a few weeks – it is question of money and financing more than a question of feasibility.

    As things go now we are burning money and have a squaremeter of platform output that places things in a general area of 331 Euro per squaremeter living space – if you check it the per squaremeter living space cost in urban areas is considerable higher – so i think we are able to offer a “alternative floating lifstyle in the caribbean” at a cost that could be already attractive for many people. We just have to build the “model house” and sell the living style.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    #12353
    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    Farmer wrote:



    Can I suggest the tetrahedron? It has to be formed into square sides for living space because everything we make and own is square but it is stronger and more stable than the cube.

    " />
    Makes good 2D shapes

    " />

    Makes good 3D shapes

    " />

    Because each corner is the centerpoint of a sphere it distributes the weight more uniformly. Stress is shared over the lattice.

    " />

    Also, very good work. Thank you for sharing this with us.

    um is anybody here gonna volunteer and clean all that mess? its gonna have to be done every few years i just dont think u gonna wanta see the bill.

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