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matrix seasteading raft up

Home Forums Research Engineering matrix seasteading raft up

This topic contains 22 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of rarbolay rarbolay 3 years ago.

Viewing 8 posts - 16 through 23 (of 23 total)
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  • #14963
    Avatar of xns
    xns
    Participant

    Seasteader- wrote:
    Fish farming, or growing seafood on a seastead? I do have reservations about that. What’s the point to do that while in the middle of the ocean when you can just fish for much cheaper and for a far better profit margin? Fish farming is labor intensive and has low profit margins

    Actually you’ve managed to get it backwards, 350km out, there are no fish because it exists in what’s known as an “ocean desert”, unless you’re near a seamount. As for profit margins, I can’t say how bad it is for trawlers, but I know I can get an average of 400% out of my land-based farms. That includes all labour, rental, utilities and taxes. And if we’re talking about labour, it takes just 6 staff to run a 100 metric ton farm. And if production goes up 5 times, you’d only need 10 staff. Anyway, this has nothing to do with the topic, I’m just posting to clear misconceptions.

    King Shannon of the Constitutional Monarchy of Logos.

    #14965
    Avatar of Shouri
    Shouri
    Participant

    One kg of beef is like 23-25 U.S. dollars where i live, and u can actually buy a sheep(even a fat one) in Africa with that, still there are lotsa herders, and ranches in Turkey, customs tax for carcass meat is 75% still it’s quite profitable to buy from outside even with the high taxes. As far as i know people grow food to be self sufficient(it literally means independent). I agree about that importing might be a better choice for starting though. But when i imagine myself living on a seastead close to the shore i eat my own fish and greens, i’d import cereals, red meat and fruits though if ia m living on something similar to mmk. I think lettuce, parsley, cabbage etc can be produced effectively on sea, i do have experience with hyrdoponics and a little experience with aeroponics and i can assure you, you can supply a large family with all garden veggies only with a room sized greenhouse. If you have excess electricity than you will even need less area.Don’t get confused though I am not saying that farming on seasteads is feasible in a commercial scale, it is not, but it might be wise to be self sufficient as much as one can be you’ll still need to import nutrients for the plants you grow unless you can produce them yourselves though which is unlikely in a small seastead) That said importing stuff when yo can is probably the best way, except for fish-.-.

    #14970
    Avatar of wohl1917
    wohl1917
    Participant

    Welcome Aboard Zeph! On the one hand i agree that isolation for it’s own sake would make seasteads targets, at the same time to survive to get to a size that would be too big to mess with we’d have to be out, way out in the deep blue.

    < http://ocr.wikia.com/wiki/Oceanic_Citizens_Republic_Wiki>

    Avatar of Ellen-Re-Generate
    Ellen-Re-Generate
    Participant

    Zephyrheart wrote:
    Consider Isreal. The only reason that nation exists is because the US says it’ll back ‘em up in a fight. I’m not saying we want to be dependent on others, but having “big friends” tends to keep the bully from picking on you. Except when you’re walking home alone, but that’s a different topic.

    Actually, Israel is an excellent example of precisely what I am talking about. The only reason Israel still exists is because a sizable chunk of Israeli citizenry are trained to use, and supplied with, potent firearms. Israel’s close political allegiances with America and Britain were entirely tertiary to the reason it has survived upwards of 5 wars waged upon it by its neighbors with the sole intent of wiping them out utterly.

    Know who Dr. Ruth Westheimer is? Squat little old lady and noted sexology expert. She was a Jewish teenager living in a kibbutz, a Jewish boarding school, out in the hinterlands to the east of Jerusalem when she joined the Haganah, Israeli Militia, and was trained as a sniper. She was wounded while fighting in the `48 Israeli War of Independence defending that kibbutz.

    It was never my intention to claim that a seastead should arm up in lieu of political and cultural and economic ties to land-locked countries (note slightly different meaning of land-locked is intended here). I was saying that in addition to such foreign relations, a seastead will have to be able effectively to defend itself with arms, just as Israel has had to do time and time again, if it is going to survive. That will likely require, again using the Israeli model, developing a native weapons design and manufacturing base once the seastead grows large enough, in order to address the unique needs of armed defense on the high seas. A seastead on the high seas, by the way, is the epitome from your analogy of “walking home alone”.

    Discussion of whether or not Israel can count on her American allies under Obama in the face of a developing Iranian nuclear weapons program is tabled for another time.

    As for food, I would not expect that large macropod herding on a seastead would be practical. It would just turn into another version of high-density factory farming with animals living their entire lives in cages face to face and side to side with its neighbors. Not only inhumane, but also produces an inferior food nutritionally. Small animal farming, such as chickens and small turkeys would be the way to go, in addition to aquaculture.

    I don’t think it’s as hard to develope custom hydroponic and aeroponic nutrient solutions as you think.

    https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Hydroponics#Nutrient_solutions

    And Ocean water mining techniques exist that are sustainable and can readily extract all of the elements from sea water needed to manufacture the plant nutrients from Phosphorus to trace elements, … provided you have enough power to operate the water mining and chemical production equipment.

    I have a thorium reactor under the hood of my car. I get ∞ miles per gallon.

    #14973
    Avatar of jtg423
    jtg423
    Participant

    Ocean, Ellmer and all others

    I have said before that I agree with yall… not totally but the gist…. Just posting to say so again.

    I think this discussion is going in the right lines…

    Cheap – 40-80k for a module that can be connected to a community

    Safe and long life – at least as safe as a convetional boat (this should not be too hard to do (forgive the ignoramous who is “dumber than a bag of hammers” (yes I love cliches too) and can sink a water ballon)) and must have a life, with minimal upkeep of at least a conventional house (ie – read 50-100 yrs (yes ellmer… for the first “demo” we could do something that is not so long lived to generate business and increase awareness))

    bussiness orientated – must be able to make some sort of income or else you will never get anyone to move there

    Functional and asthetically pleasing – got to be able to move, even very slowly, and must be a “good-looking” place to live

    Let me add that:

    I think that we can do very large scale aquaculture (there is tons of space in the ocean but only about 3-8% of it has fish, there are huge ocean deserts that only would require a small ingenuity and cash (of course) to create very hospitable conditions for raising large amounts of seafood(check it – http://www.theglobaleducationproject.org/earth/fisheries-and-aquaculture.php)) and small scale/personal use agriculture but it will not be enough to be “self-sufficient”… we will need to trade and buy traditional food stuff as well.

    I think we can be more than a mile from shore (mainly because of the issues with traffic)… not not outside the EEZs yet.

    Thx

    JTG423

    #14980
    Avatar of Zephyrheart
    Zephyrheart
    Participant

    wohl1917 wrote:

    Welcome Aboard Zeph! On the one hand i agree that isolation for it’s own sake would make seasteads targets, at the same time to survive to get to a size that would be too big to mess with we’d have to be out, way out in the deep blue.

    Thanks! Looking forward to getting to know everyone! You’re absolutely right. A balanced strategy will be required. Perhaps this is a case where “divide and conquer” might apply? What I mean is that maybe we need two components: a near-shore and a deep-sea community.

    Ellen wrote:

    I was saying that in addition to such foreign relations, a seastead will have to be able effectively to defend itself with arms, just as Israel has had to do time and time again, if it is going to survive. That will likely require, again using the Israeli model, developing a native weapons design and manufacturing base once the seastead grows large enough, in order to address the unique needs of armed defense on the high seas. A seastead on the high seas, by the way, is the epitome from your analogy of “walking home alone”.

    I think we’re describing the same elephant with different words. You’ve yet to say something with which I disagree! Defense-wise, a seastead community will require everyone to take part. Arms acquisition, training, and militia mobilization must all be inherent parts of seastead life. At least until the community is such a size that it can be defended without every resident being involved. I suspect it would be a long time before a seastead of that size comes about.

    By the way, very astute on the Isreali history lesson. I appreciated it greatly! I’d not heard of Dr. Westheimer, nor did I know of Isreal’s military methods. Since I’m directly involved with the U.S. war machine (read: USAF employee), all I get is propaganda about how we’re the only reason they survive. Although I do hear that their air force is pretty awesome.

    Great conversation. :) Just wish I had more to add.

    Oh… and…

    Ellen wrote:

    Discussion of whether or not Israel can count on her American allies under Obama in the face of a developing Iranian nuclear weapons program is tabled for another time.

    Ha! I have little doubt we both know how short that conversation would probably be.

    #14995
    Avatar of Raaraar
    Raaraar
    Participant

    The first would be a permenant community onboard a platform of some sort, whether it be an old oil rig or a *large* converted traditional vessel. This is obviously something which cannot be done immediately, as we are still lacking on a great deal of experience and methodology for the infrastructure of such a community,”

    Do you think something like this floating -ocean going- platform pictured above could work? just anchor it to a seamount and grow a reef/mangrove from it; the only problem would be the cost… do you think your concrete cubes could be built together in a large scale like this?

    #15022
    Avatar of rarbolay
    rarbolay
    Participant

    I have been lurking for a little while but, had to put in my two cents. People only move to a new location if there is an opportunity either financial (Legal and illegal cross border migration) or for a better life (war time migration is a good example). A move into the wilderness with no chance for personal or financial growth will not be taken by 99% of the population. Once the colonies are established and have demonstrated the validity and opportunity, they will attract colonists organically. See, as an example, the original American colonies. Colonists signed a contract and moved to the new world in order to grow crops for commercial purposes. So the question becomes, what commercial enterprise would be profitable enough to be worth moving to the middle of nowhere? Some possible business:
    Adults only resort like Hedonism II. Would add male and female “hosts” to keep it lively.
    Off shore casino.
    Cannabis and other recreational drugs (production and consumption or distribution)
    Off shore banking. Creation of wealth safeguards with absolute privacy. This one would actually be fairly easy. Using the internet and a secure movable platform, lets say a submarine, you store assets and charge a storage fee. That would include things like art, precious metals, cash or any other asset that is valuable enough to get off shore.
    Off shore data storage. Internet can again provide the answer here.
    Some of these will attract the ire of the nearest State and would have to be done outside of the EEZ.
    I will move for personal reasons but, not everyone is like me. I am working on establishing a business model that will work anywhere I move and had been looking at remote areas with little government influence before finding this site.

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