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Marine Spatial Planning

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This topic contains 7 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of elspru elspru 4 years, 5 months ago.

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
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  • #1304
    Profile photo of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    I had a search but found nothing about this, & its important.

    As with anything to do with the sea, being prepared is the key, Least of all building a new nation at sea.

    I dosn’t matter if its a Man made islands, House caissons, or an entire floating city; we are still affected by our surroundings.

    One of these problems is as we all know our current owners/overlords (Government), We are Citizens, of these nation states, therefore assets/resources of the greater whole that is the various nations we come from.

    Since we are citizens we have to respect the law, & one of the tools of the law is Marine Spatial Planning, from guess who.. yep your right THE U.N, (thanks again to those guys)

    The essence of MSP is to provide a legal framework to control & organise coastal & offshore activities. (thats our seastead)

    This presents yet another Legal boundary to Seasteading, which needs to be discussed.

    One question that faces us, is what Have the TSI done about Legal research, i mean as a U.S foundation How do they look at sovereignty past 12nm of the coastal state? & how do WE look at it?

    I mean we could go Rouge & say screw it ALL, or we could try to play there game, & gain security though that “game”, as this is a potential Life or Death life choice for many of us & our family, we need to talk about it, & figure out how we realy intend on dealing with this, as well as how the TSI (who our hopes rest with) will deal with this or will ask us to deal with this.

    However as disturbing as trawling govenment letters & documents is, I find a comfort in seeing somthing you dont see in many other parts of government; uncertainty,

    Believe it or not some of the internal correspondence of various Nation states regarding how to deal with Law at sea & how to organise it & enforce it, sounds very much like us talking on these forums(with the exception of elspru), from the reading of inter departmental letters that are for public review.

    It is however very interesting to see the edges, the defused & frayed edges of civilization in the 21st century, just because of some salt water.

    Here are some links:

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Spatial_Planning

    http://www.unesco-ioc-marinesp.be/msp_guide

    #10928
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Lets go rogue and say screw it all. I’d rather ask for forgiveness than permission.

    #10930
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Jack wrote:

    its important.

    As with anything to do with the sea,

    being prepared is the key,

    building a new nation at sea.

    I dosn’t matter if its a Man made islands,

    House caissons, or an entire floating city;

    we are still affected by our surroundings.

    One of these problems is as we all know our current owners/overlords (Government), We are Citizens, of these nation states, therefore assets/resources of the greater whole that is the various nations we come from.

    so they are our servants.

    you are aware of yourself,

    before aware of others.

    Remember if you live happily,

    you can share happiness with others.

    Since we are citizens we have to respect the law,

    someone else’s documented agreements?

    I agree with respecting the documented agreements,

    which we have chosen ourselves,

    within the incarnation.

    Remember consent based society.

    & one of the tools of the law is Marine Spatial Planning, from guess who.. yep your right THE U.N, (thanks again to those guys)

    The essence of MSP is to provide a legal framework to control & organise coastal & offshore activities. (thats our seastead)

    This presents yet another Legal boundary to Seasteading, which needs to be discussed.

    Policy is an imaginary boundary.

    We can simply focus on the physical elements,

    the social as well, like getting people involved,

    but that is the physical involvement which counts for the most.

    Remember when it comes down to it,

    we have to protect our physical bodies,

    as any self-sustaining organism does in the wild.

    It is only the weak internal flesh,

    like of a super-organism corporation,

    that can live in warmth cozy talk-it-all,

    would die if outside the corporations skin.

    I’ve already mentioned the homesteading contract.

    We can of course make physical documents,

    it may at least buy us some time during negotiations.

    While the other party reads over the material,

    compiling and installing the program(s).

    Perhaps we could convert people,

    to our way of seeing,

    via well crafted statements.

    So we could communicate,

    on agreeable terms.

    One question that faces us, is what Have the TSI done about Legal research, i mean as a U.S foundation How do they look at sovereignty past 12nm of the coastal state? & how do WE look at it?

    I mean we could go Rouge & say screw it ALL, or we could try to play there game, & gain security though that “game”, as this is a potential Life or Death life choice for many of us & our family, we need to talk about it, & figure out how we realy intend on dealing with this, as well as how the TSI (who our hopes rest with) will deal with this or will ask us to deal with this.

    It’s really optional on a person by person basis.

    Some might be super-organism members,

    and so feel completely happy conforming.

    Others may have some creative policies.

    We with you want to allow diversity,

    so we could all grow stronger,

    being able to adapt,

    to a wide variety,

    of knowledge.

    However as disturbing as trawling govenment letters & documents is, I find a comfort in seeing somthing you dont see in many other parts of government; uncertainty,

    Believe it or not some of the internal correspondence of various Nation states regarding how to deal with Law at sea & how to organise it & enforce it, sounds very much like us talking on these forums(with the exception of elspru),

    How am I any different?

    from the reading of inter departmental letters that are for public review.

    It is however very interesting to see the edges, the defused & frayed edges of civilization in the 21st century, just because of some salt water.

    Well there are many elements that are a part of it.

    Including the NWO, the economy collapse,

    the depopulation agenda,

    technology suppression.

    There are lots of reasons to find,

    somewhere we can live free.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #10931
    Profile photo of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    elspru wrote:

    so they are our servants.

    you are aware of yourself,

    before aware of others.

    Remember if you live happily,

    you can share happiness with others.

    Remember it’s not a consent based society. So when we pay our taxes on food, land etc. its not by choice. When our overlords declare war, we have no choice, when they bring in conscription, we have no choice.

    Judge not on words but actions, & by that we can see clearly we are not being served, we service the monster that is our States & its political systems.

    I agree with the happiness though it works, just wish people would recipricate it IRL.

    elspru wrote:

    Policy is an imaginary boundary.

    Last time i was out on a yacht I saw the navy search another yacht that had some kids on it, they were about 300 meters of our port … when those guys come alongside.. YOU DONT ARGUE, they are well armed & train to kill & they get paid to, they have little in the way of reservationds about taking a life since they are trained to, & people that do those jobs will probably enjoy every second of it & they just want some action, so any “attitude” you give them, as they will say, will just make them take more action against you.

    I want practical soultions for the above problem & the “imaginary policies” of our States that they enforce offshore.

    as well as the TSI’s opinion on this, since they are talking about making a new nation, they are a U.S registered foundation, & under U.S law, so hows that going to work?

    eslpru wrote:

    How am I any different?

    after about 1 day of reading these forums it seems clear (& i mean this in the most sweet & funy way possible) your the resident fruitcake now that not to say their aint a few more on here, or that were not all insane, but jeez some of the stuff you come up with has me on the floor pishing myself LOL

    If possible Before I die (I got relatives in Canada) I just want to see the look on some port authority guy when you tell him he cant search your boat because it belongs to another terrestrial plain of existance & its last owners are waiting for it in Valhala or somthing.. lol

    I’m sure we will find somwhere to live, but we got to do somthign real a bit faster then the TSI are doing it.. because im gonnna be to old, before they get somthing real offshore working.

    However One of the big problems we need to adress & TSI have to also is, HOW ARE WE & TSI going t deal with MARINE SPATIAL PLANNING? its not going to go away, its real & people in suites use it against people in boats, so they live by it & people with guns enforce it every day.

    #10934
    Profile photo of Terraformer
    Terraformer
    Participant

    I say build an artifical island somewhere outside territorial waters, then go rogue and declare independence, regardless of whether we’re outside the EEZ or not.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Seasteading is to Boat Living what Traction Cities are to Vandwelling – simply a matter of scale.

    #10935

    i am not sure we are looking at the real issues here. If you have a big floating structure the big deal is not how to declare independence – even small ships are “de facto independent” from national laws and law enforcement” due to flags of convenience. The real issue is how you build it, how you earn a living, how you keep maintenance at a level that you can afford, etc…

    If you don’t like the local ruling and enforcement go elsewhere – i think the perception “there is no place on earth exept outside EEZ where you can do your thing in peace” is just orders of magnitud out of realistic perception. The world is full of remote spots where you can just do what you want and nobody will interfere.

    #10937
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    ellmer - http://yook3.com wrote:
    The world is full of remote spots where you can just do what you want and nobody will interfere.

    Where? Really, the only unclaimed and free spots on Earth are tiny seabattered rocks, and then of course, you have Antarctica, which is absolutely inhospitable, having no capability for indepedent living.

    All other remote spots inside EEZ’s and country bounds are by definition claimed, and at some point, some government is going to come along and tax you, fine you for not having planning permission, or evict you for not being a citizen etc. You could always go to some lawless warzone like Somalia, but good luck not getting kidnapped and killed.

    However, I think the main problem with this is that most of the people on this site don’t want to get away from society, they want to get away from the state. Now, a remote place that can support a community of hundreds existing within the jurisdiction of a state, but somehow unpestered and un-subject to their meddlings and laws… not happening. That’s why true freedom, sadly, lies far out at sea, making things very difficult.

    #10938
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Jack wrote:

    So when we pay our taxes on food, land etc. its not by choice. When our overlords declare war, we have no choice, when they bring in conscription, we have no choice.

    Well you might fantasize that you don’t.

    But the fact is, there is always alternative.

    All things and thoughts are possible.

    Judge not on words but actions, & by that we can see clearly we are not being served, we service the monster that is our States & its political systems.

    Maybe you do.

    While I do benefit from it.

    *shrugs* Abundance and freedom.

    Paradise of everyday life.

    I agree with the happiness though it works, just wish people would recipricate it IRL.

    *hugs* :-) :-D happy

    happiness

    gleki

    .ui

    elspru wrote:

    Policy is an imaginary boundary.

    Last time i was out on a yacht I saw the navy search another yacht that had some kids on it,

    [/quote]

    You watched a tyranasaurs consume it’s prey?

    I guess you felt brave as it was distracted.

    they were about 300 meters of our port … when those guys come alongside.. YOU DONT ARGUE, they are well armed & train to kill & they get paid to, they have little in the way of reservationds about taking a life since they are trained to, & people that do those jobs will probably enjoy every second of it & they just want some action, so any “attitude” you give them, as they will say, will just make them take more action against you.

    Yahar Yahar,

    I was a pirate too once meity.

    We all get along.

    I want practical soultions for the above problem & the “imaginary policies” of our States that they enforce offshore.

    Sure there are many solutions.

    Animals use a wide variety of methods to elude predators.

    For instance camaflauge, as you may notice is used in the depicted boats.

    Also there is speed, stealth, poison, armour.

    Poison would be something like,

    if they upset you, then their boss, gets upset with them.

    Which is what we could have,

    by having policies of agreements.

    Though we can still make use,

    of all the other methods.

    Having a semi-sumbergible boat for instance, could be quite useful,

    or even simply have gray colored vessel and sails can be effective camaflauge (stealth).

    These are practical solutions,

    as you can physical do them.

    as well as the TSI’s opinion on this, since they are talking about making a new nation, they are a U.S registered foundation, & under U.S law, so hows that going to work?

    That’s why I decided to do my own documentation.

    elspru wrote:

    How am I any different?

    after about 1 day of reading these forums it seems clear (& i mean this in the most sweet & funy way possible) your the resident fruitcake now that not to say their aint a few more on here, or that were not all insane, but jeez some of the stuff you come up with has me on the floor pishing myself LOL

    [/quote]

    I’m very happy to make you so happy! :D *hugs*

    If possible Before I die (I got relatives in Canada) I just want to see the look on some port authority guy when you tell him he cant search your boat because it belongs to another terrestrial plain of existance & its last owners are waiting for it in Valhala or somthing.. lol

    Lol, ya, that would be quite interesting.

    If you substitute Valhalla for some magical floating island paradise.

    I’d probably add in something like Karma has it in for them.

    But most likely we could simply make friends,

    on a person to person layer.

    Once you’ve got a few friendlies,

    the others can be swayed more easily.

    Though that’s only if you really like them,

    and intend on continued transactions there.

    Otherwise can just go,

    wherever it is,

    whim flows.

    I’m sure we will find somwhere to live, but we got to do somthign real a bit faster then the TSI are doing it.. because im gonnna be to old, before they get somthing real offshore working.

    well if you really make it a personal goal,

    you can seastead on a sailboat,

    in your lifetime.

    Perhaps even a ferrocement flavoured one,

    for that extra-long lifeexpectancy.

    However One of the big problems we need to adress & TSI have to also is, HOW ARE WE & TSI going t deal with MARINE SPATIAL PLANNING? its not going to go away, its real & people in suites use it against people in boats, so they live by it & people with guns enforce it every day.

    Ya, there are predators running around everwhere.

    If you focus on them, you’re liable to get eaten.

    I have bunnies, and they like to hop,

    rather than to get eaten.

    So boats is one way we can hop,

    though it’s more stealth,

    than speed.

    we can also have oxyhydrogen powered propulsion,

    if we think it would be effective,

    in escape tactics.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

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