Make it work before worrying about societies
April 30, 2009 at 6:29 am #903
Simply a modest proposal — We have a huge amount of technical hurdles to leap. If it was simple, it would already be done.
Why shouldn’t we have our first few full communities in US waters? By doing so, we get to test all of technologies, to include weathering storms, work out the manning requirements, shake down the human factors (HVAC, data access, families, education, etc.), all the while under the protection of US waters. This would allow us to make the seasteading work as a system without having to deal with self defense, soveriengty, or a great deal of the issues being debated.
Once the system is working, then based on the system’s capabilities, as well as using the lead time this process allows for doing the needed legal work, then the sea steaders will know what can be done across the board and make decisions from there.
There is no reason to stop the various discussions. The debate is needed. However, I’m simply seeing we should reduce the number of variable to solve up front, then given those results, proceed accordingly. This would include taking a given sea steading group’s desired society design, taking the developed and proven technologies from the working test beds, and then designing a purpose-built seastead to meet that society’s needs.April 30, 2009 at 12:52 pm #5783
I don’t disagree with your observation, I just wish to add an observation of my own to see how it reflects on your own ideas.
Why the U.S.?
Aside from the fact that many of us currently reside there, thus get to remain in our comfort zones, there is not much benefit of staying here.
- Extremely high costs for everything. (Personal living expense, real estate, labor costs, construction, etc.)
- A government that has been chipping away at personal liberty for years now.
- Over-regulated society that will present additional hurdles to any progress we work towards.
Not to mention the fact that staying in our comfort zones is counter productive. Seasteading is not going to be “comfortable” on a variety of levels, especially at it’s inception. The sooner we get out of the quicksand that is America, the better… and the more adjusted we’ll be when the first seasteads float away from all known civilizations.
-JasonApril 30, 2009 at 2:53 pm #5784
“We have a huge amount of technical hurdles to leap”. Which are?….We are not trying to colonize Mars or a planet in a Galaxy,…far, far, away. All the technology is here, tested, and working. Correct me if i’m wrong. Nothing is simple, very true. But not impossible, actually very achiveable. “Why shouldn’t we have our first few full communities in US waters?” One reason stands up: Coast Guard. They have the right to board your boat (read seastead) at any time for any reasons,anywhere, (territorial or international waters), invoking a “safefty inspection”. Who give them this extraordinary rights,…I dont know. Definately not We The People, nor The U.S. Constitution,
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
How should we clear this hurdle? Again, plssssss, correct me if I’m wrong. Oh, The 4th Amendment is more like a,…guideline now?
These are just facts, I am not taking a political stance here.
But the main reason to go abroad w/the whole seasteading venture is money, money, money. Would you spend $50 mil. or $10 mil. for the final product? Ahoy! O.April 30, 2009 at 4:21 pm #5787
I’m inclined to agree. And, I believe this is what TSI is planning.
While the tech. does exist already, it hasn’t been integrated quite like this before, and certainly not on a shoestring budget. For example, solar power and wind power exist. But they’ve never been cost effective on a small scale without government subsidies. Figuring out how to integrate these technologies on a stead with small surface area is a “huge technical hurdle”.April 30, 2009 at 5:51 pm #5788
are very cost effective for crusing boats. With a wind generator and couple of solar panels (either one) a sailboat is self sufficient in terms of electric for onboard consumption. I ran freezes, electronics, cabin lights, nav. lights, inverters (for DC to AC conversion), appliances, phone, with 0 hours on running the engine to recharge my battery bank. It can go on and on for the life of my deep cycle batteries bank (4-5 years or even more). This can be applied to any seastead of any size, anytime.October 10, 2009 at 3:50 pm #8113
There are people with different profession who contribute to this forum as far i know, people who doesnt know a shit about engineering included, but that very same person might have a useful law, philosophy, sociology, psychology knowledge, thus having forum threads where they can contribute by sharing their ideas is not a waste, since even if tsi or another party makes this work society and governing of seasteads will be a problem, and clearing all these problems beforehand without investing any effort is beneficial in many ways… And the main hurdle is not technical but financial and to achieve this goal tsi needs more funds, more funds and even more funds? Or is there actually anyone who is willing to sponsor such projects by actually payin millions of dollars? If so with a minor funding(far more than 500k $ though, it isnt near enough to complete designing a seastead colony which can sustain most of the needs of an entire society) i too can complete a full presentation of a seastead within a few years with a another group. What i m saying is, we must increase the topics publicity and tsi s funds. Even if we want to do things seperately from them, they(tsi) may as well become a library which motivates future innovators even if they fail to undertake the project in the long run. Finding cheaper ways to build is not exactly the same thing with finding funds, and without funds you cant effectively find cheaper ways to craft stuff…October 11, 2009 at 12:17 am #8130
…does not apply to boats, even if you–like us–live aboard fulltime. Coasties can board at will without a warrant.
Given that, an important effort towards having seasteads declared “houses” as opposed to “boats” should be considered.
Taking our cue from the Eskimos, we boat people have over 30 words for “leak.”October 11, 2009 at 11:54 am #8134
to sail out beyond the territorial waters, beyond the EEZ and then run up your flag then Article VI, Section 1, Part 2 of the Oceanic Citizens Republic’ Constitution comes into play which states, “The right of Citizen Captains, Subject Citizens and Subjects to be secure in their persons, vessels, papers and effects against searches and seizures shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall be issued, but on probable cause, supported by affirmation and specifically describing the vessel to be searched, and the persons, papers and effects to be seized.” More to the point though is that on the ‘high seas’ no one has the ‘right’ to board any vessel but those of their own nation, not the Coasties, not anyone. During the War of Northern Agression…er…Civil War, the north almost won the war for the south by getting Brittan involved in just that way. They intercepted and boarded a British ship and removed representatives of the Confederate government and the Brits did not like that one bit and it almost won for the south official diplomatic recognition and maybe even co-belligerent status!April 3, 2010 at 10:19 pm #9969
Everybody is different and has their own ideas about where seasteading will go. Not everyone can discuss topics having to do with constructing the seasteads.
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