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live aboard floating platform for the poor – aquaculture as a sustainable business

Home Forums Archive Structure Designs live aboard floating platform for the poor – aquaculture as a sustainable business

This topic contains 30 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Jack Jack 3 years ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 31 total)
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  • #10880
    Profile photo of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    I said, Its probably better for fresh fruit & herbs rather than bulk foods like cerials corn & carrots etc.

    I did not say it was the best option for 80% of the food we eat, infact i said If you read it, that 80% will probably be sea food in some way or another.

    The reason behind the idea of Fruit & Herb Hydroponics offshore is:

    • Most freshly cut herbs are refrigerated & flown into a country or area for consumption within a short time
    • Most fresh fruits with a short shelf life are flown into a country for consumption within a short time frame
    • Its unlikely we will have offshore airfields at first, especially its one of these “floating island” ideas

    Who had a dream about independence from buying products form other nations?

    “You make money and buy what you can not produce with high efficiency ” well thats how I understand the world works, so who is questioning that?

    #10883
    Profile photo of Farmer
    Farmer
    Participant

    Elmer is dead right, we will never undercut iowa . Growing land plants to live off of is, well, about as smart as tuna farming in Iowa.

    Two reasons to do it anyway:

    The illusion of being in control of your own destiny.

    Green things are pretty.

    We will never be aquatic animals. We will always be invading aliens.

    Imagine 100 years from now one of our grandkids stepping on dry land for the first time and saying “Wow, this is wonderful!”

    #10884

    jack, it is not that you said or questioned any of that – i was just preventing to repeat a long and (in my opinion) unproductive series of thread posts performed earlier that already have dealt with “taking agriculture with us” – i am a completly management oriented guy so speculating on activities that have no chance to write black numbers in the next 100 years is something i leave to the generation that follows us for efficiency reasons.

    The golden question for seasteading and the key if it will happen or not is what will we do out there that is productive and where being at sea is a advantage not a disadvantage. What comes to mind is 3 things:

    1) seafood production for a growing population

    2) mining the mid oceanic ridges.

    3) energy (wind wave currents) desalinisation of water

    Veggies Herbs and flowers are not on my list as mayor production field – does not mean that some of the people working in the above sectors will not cultivate them to some extent. I will also not dismiss that pod farming and robotisation brings the advantage of mobility to a level that agriculture at sea becomes more productive than land based – but it will not happen in the early days maybe next generation.

    As said i am a fan of evolution above revolution – when it is not out there in some form already – no chance that it will be massive in the next 50 years. What is out there already is this:

    What we can do to evolutionize the concept is skip the ship (cost 80.000 USD/day) and replace it with a much more economic floating concrete shell structure (like shown in the picture above) to create a “live aboard island” – this would mean we could be 70.000 USD per day more economic than solutions that already exists and are able to compete in existing markets.

    This makes economic sense, has a black number base, is sustainable, and due to cost reduction has has a chance to become “massive” what means socially relevant.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    #10885
    Profile photo of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    ok i see the 3 main questions.

    However, I would like to point out somthing, who is speculating? i thought this whole section of this (engineering) forum was to promote Ideas about Practical solutions to real problems, & at a later date draw on them for real projects.

    Now a real problem is; I & most other poeple like fresh Fruit & Herbs, some of which will degrade before you can Ship them via surface means, which means some of our facilities, Must be dedicated to hydroponics. (which has “black numbers” as you say).

    100 years Is a ridicules figure, when the hard numbers on hydroponics are quite evident.

    Even if its a 1-5 ration of sea based hydroponics units to aquaculture units, you are still going to need them for the plant stuffs that wont last long.

    So i dont contest the use of Sea based food chains, infact i think its the most realistic, & will likely make up 80% or so of the food production chain past the 200nm mark for seasteads.

    Now I do know a little about Aquaculture since my Mother owned 2 mussel rafts & a small salmon pen that had a triennial hall of 800t of mussels, & i helped my God-father work those rafts since i was 11 years old. I even know what people will do for that since our rafts were attacked when i was 14 by our neighbors during the night, because they wanted the part of Loch Leven in scotland we rented from the government.

    Ok so where are 1-2 hundred desperately poor people going to get $80,000 a day??

    You said “If we give a floating concrete shell platform to the poor people and enable them to live aboard go offshore and live relative comfortable for only 3000 USD on a 6m diameter float that is not a “yacht” but still much better than a wooden hut in a cramped settlement “

    Where is the solid figures for this? your concept not some one else’s idea or industrial data, i want your data,not because i want to put you in dificulty, but because i realy care about this, I want progress not just discussion.

    If you have a realistic concept with data (black figures) to show i’ll give you my email if you dont want to post them here, i’d want to buy into this if its credible, however if you dont want or cant show me, then why would you object to another concept that only has the intention of bolstering your original Dream?

    Mining the mid oceanic ridges, this is a good idea & i support it, however, its somthing that the UN care about, & are activly trying to control exploitation of said ridges due to environmental & coastal state interests of these resources.

    So i feel you will as I have said before, will be at conflict with coastal states about this,(even outside the EEZ’s) as much as a manmade island would be in conflict about territorial waters inside a coastal sates EEZ.

    And it dose not make good sense to me that 4000m the avrage seabed floor level, would be an economiclly viable for the TSI or yoursef to exploit, unless you have millions?

    Which brings us back to Seasteading on Concrete barges on the High seas more than 200nm from shore.. friend, i dont see it your going to have to show me;

    1. The Safety features of your 6m barge
    2. How Cost of materials, Fabrication, Man hours, & Deployment costs around $3000 each
    3. CFD test results on your model (not just a 3d renderd model)

    You said “but still much better than a wooden hut in a cramped settlement”

    Well m8 id rather be shitting in an open gutter next to my neighbors making breakfast, with a tarpaulin for a roof during a deluge, than be hangin’ on to a 6m caisson platform in the middle of the pacific during a kick arse storm, but maybe that just me.

    And whilst im at it, That thing your on about all the time, ITS A SUBMARINE! & also its a CONCRETE SUBMARINE which sounds WORSE, its not any kind of yacht loool.

    well if that hasnt excommunicated me from the “Concrete club” i dont know what will. (hehe)

    #10888
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Jack wrote:

    ok i see the 3 main questions.

    However, I would like to point out somthing, who is speculating? i thought this whole section of this (engineering) forum was to promote Ideas about Practical solutions to real problems, & at a later date draw on them for real projects.

    Now a real problem is; I & most other poeple like fresh Fruit & Herbs, some of which will degrade before you can Ship them via surface means,

    well much of what we will be growing will be plant matter.

    Please recall that plants originated in the ocean as algae.

    There is a wide diversity of algaes some of which can be quite delicious and nutritious.

    which means some of our facilities, Must be dedicated to hydroponics. (which has “black numbers” as you say).

    Actually we can get all our dietary requirements from 100% seafood.

    Though we could have indoor gardens like you say,

    if we have some extra boats floating around,

    can reoutfit them as greenhouses.

    Now I do know a little about Aquaculture since my Mother owned 2 mussel rafts & a small salmon pen that had a triennial hall of 800t of mussels, & i helped my God-father work those rafts since i was 11 years old. I even know what people will do for that since our rafts were attacked when i was 14 by our neighbors during the night, because they wanted the part of Loch Leven in scotland we rented from the government.

    I know shellfish are abundant, though I’m still quite hesitant,

    as they are one of the easiest ways to die of food poisoning.

    So I was thinking of mainly using them for cement mixtures,

    though we could sell them to people willing to eat them.

    Potentially shellfish can be an emergency food supply,

    though fish, shrimp, algae and safe seafood prefered.

    Mining the mid oceanic ridges, this is a good idea & i support it, however, its somthing that the UN care about, & are activly trying to control exploitation of said ridges due to environmental & coastal state interests of these resources.

    Yes, we can have rings of security,

    with loyal members silent,

    just like the illuminati,

    to protect our acts.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_%28computer_security%29

    Though really, the UN makes policies,

    but rarely if ever enforces them.

    else Japan wouldn’t be whaling in Antarctica.

    Which brings us back to Seasteading on Concrete barges on the High seas more than 200nm from shore.. friend, i dont see it your going to have to show me;

    1. The Safety features of your 6m barge
    2. How Cost of materials, Fabrication, Man hours, & Deployment costs around $3000 each
    3. CFD test results on your model (not just a 3d renderd model)

    1. wider and longer than it is tall, for geometric stability.

    2. a square meter of ferrocement hull is about $40 in materials cost

    here is how I came to that number:

    2/3 sand + 1/3 cement + 8 layers galvinized chicken wire

    I got prices from google products, and converted them

    to price per kilo (sand, cement), or per square meter (chicken mesh) respectively.

    (32 * 2 * 0.19) + (32 * 0.276) + (2.14 * 8) = 38.112

    I’m not sure how to add in rebar to that cost,

    though it shouldn’t make much price difference.

    my hexagonal boat hull with 35m^3 internal volume,

    enough for 2 people to live comfortably has 67m^2 surface area,

    so the total price for materials is $2680.

    about $3000 is a good estimate got materials cost.

    The labour would have to be free,

    but it technically doable by relatively unskilled people.

    Requiring only, welding, crimping, and plastering.

    Can be streamlined into manufacturing,

    like model-t’s of ford.

    3. what’s a CFD? you can make a 3D model?

    Hey man, I can give you the measurements.

    You can go ahead and do it.

    I use psychic sight design,

    and mini physical modeling.

    You said “but still much better than a wooden hut in a cramped settlement”

    Well m8 id rather be shitting in an open gutter next to my neighbors making breakfast, with a tarpaulin for a roof during a deluge, than be hangin’ on to a 6m caisson platform in the middle of the pacific during a kick arse storm, but maybe that just me.

    really, if there was a deluge, and you didn’t have a boat,

    you would most likely drown.

    “kick ass storms” can be like roller coasters for planning vessels.

    However displacement vessels tend to bob up and down.

    Submarines just watch the waveworks with amusement.

    “look there’s a storm on the surface!”

    “oh really? I didn’t notice.”

    And whilst im at it, That thing your on about all the time, ITS A SUBMARINE! & also its a CONCRETE SUBMARINE which sounds WORSE, its not any kind of yacht loool.

    well if that hasnt excommunicated me from the “Concrete club” i dont know what will. (hehe)

    If you’re serious about seasteading.

    Do the research,

    you’ll find ferrocement is the best.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #10895
    Profile photo of TheTimPotter
    TheTimPotter
    Participant

    There is no reason that agriculture could not become competitive with land based agriculture if we are working with salt tolerant crops. The White Mangrove is an example of a salt tolerant fruit which is edible after a week in a mud bath and boiling twice.

    #10898
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Can you enlighten us pls,..? How is seastead agriculture to become competitive with land base one? Since “there is no reason”,….

    Give us, the uneducated ones your expert reasoning.

    Maybe then, we will join you in building an agrarian seastead and start planting white mangroves and other salt lolerant crops and live happily ever after on that diet. Yam, yam.

    #10903
    Profile photo of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    Hey Capistor

    capistor wrote:

    There is no reason that agriculture could not become competitive with land based agriculture if we are working with salt tolerant crops. The White Mangrove is an example of a salt tolerant fruit which is edible after a week in a mud bath and boiling twice.

    your Right m8, but its probably not the best example, especially for some of the more hardcore anti-vegie folk (maybe mum made em eat to many Brussels sprouts for dinner when they were younger)

    But you are right about that, there is even a grass in the UK i read about that grows in salt water marshes, & sheep graze on them very well, Ive even tatsed that lamb its a bit mre salty than normal but I like it more salty, since lamb is a little boring any ways.

    Ok So we have a couple of REAL solutions, somthing potentially More Economically Viable than Aquaculture structures if mounted on cheap Caissons.

    1. Grass that can grow in Salt water conditions, as longs its not under water more than 20% of the time (based on tides of the origonal place where they get submerged during High & low tides, yet are not harmed)
    2. Sheep Can EAT that grass & be healthy, Sheep are also used to living near the coast, lol some of the mini islands on the west coast of Scotland have large flocks of sheep, ive seen them during a storm they roll up like a hedge hog & tumble with the wind its so funny to watch (like a tumble weed for you cowboys)

    So you aint wrong Capistor.

    elspru wrote:
    Please recall that plants originated in the ocean as algae.

    “14. let entity be metaversal or do mix” God created them yes & they spread through the oceans real fast so as not to mess up Gods 6 day thing.

    elspru wrote:
    Actually we can get all our dietary requirements from 100% seafood. Though we could have indoor gardens like you say,if we have some extra boats floating around, can reoutfit them as greenhouses.

    Yeh see, you missed the point, its not somthing 100% we need, like we dont need a toilet onboard, you only need to drop your kegs dump over the side, but its somthing we want, so we need it, now i like cooking & if i have to eat tuna without bresh Basil & Tomato’s im not gonna be happy, i need fresh things like SALAD, & they simply wont keep on extended journeys at sea.

    So we SHOULD be talking about, not just Aquaculture, but also Hydroponics & how food production should be split up into food groups, & what solutions to each problem.

    I think it should be 70% aquaculture, & the remaining dedicated to Vegitables Fruits & Herbs that wont last the importations in steel containers at sea for a long time. (the range from Coastal ports to the seasteads has to be considered).

    elspru wrote:
    I know shellfish are abundant, though I’m still quite hesitant, as they are one of the easiest ways to die of food poisoning. So I was thinking of mainly using them for cement mixtures.

    so you think its ok to eat “tasty algea” but not shell fish, full of protean & fresh goodness…? (i was going to ask if your mad…but with hind sight from reading these forums i err will give it a miss skipper) lol I like you elspru your a real colorful sort.

    elspru wrote:
    Yes, we can have rings of security, with loyal members silent, just like the illuminati, to protect our acts.

    Or.. we could just Tell ISA what we are going to do, & ask if there is any good reason we should not do it. & if they have a reason, but some one else is doing it we just ignore them like every one else, & qoute the other case when confronted with the issue.

    (Japan gets away with whaling because its Tasty ” Research”).

    I like your claim, & i see the idea, but I would not be standing on it at sea… I want proper construction, if you intend of selling them to people, they could be good for animals though, such as Caisson barges for grass to feed Sheep or Worm farming to feed chickens.

    CDF is a term used in marine construction for Computational Fluid Dynamics, there are special programs you can buy or pay lab’s to do CDF tests on ship designs, such as Numeca software, it helps you understand how your design will cope with the sea at its worst.

    It can also be used for working out how long your structure will last in the Sea, since many things eat away at concrete when in salt water. (hope this helps).

    elspru wrote:
    If you’re serious about seasteading. Do the research, you’ll find ferrocement is the best.

    Ferrocement, is one of the best options your right,

    If youl forgive me for indulging a reply to your remark; It would be more desirable to have a foating Island built & expanded around a sea mount that is built up above water, (offshore) to be used as a shallow bay & an anchor for your seasteads, than it would be to be trully offshore in deep water. (I will spare you the technical reasons why so).

    The book below sums up what i belive is the orderd way in which to aproach th whole issue of Starting a new nation at sea.

    Construction of marine and offshore structures (650 pages) by Ben. C. Gerwick Its somthing i suggest for you to read if you in serious about living on Caissons offshore. although its a pricey publication, its well worth it.

    hehe wrote:
    calm (Party) aware (Wasted) desire (Cant be arsed) choice ( you dont have a wife heh) love (After she uses your Master Card) express (Killing a trafic warden trying to put a ticket on your truck) intuit (knowing, just knowing there is one beer in the fridge at the back) move (do i have to?)

    #10904
    Profile photo of Terraformer
    Terraformer
    Participant

    Well…. considering crops don’t get seasickness, we can grow them on floating platforms without much hassle. Build up a seamount into an artificial island, and use that as the foundation for your house, then use floating gardens for the luxury foodstuffs and aquaculture for the rest.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Seasteading is to Boat Living what Traction Cities are to Vandwelling – simply a matter of scale.

    #10912
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Jack wrote:

    Hey Capistor

    capistor wrote:

    There is no reason that agriculture could not become competitive with land based agriculture if we are working with salt tolerant crops. The White Mangrove is an example of a salt tolerant fruit which is edible after a week in a mud bath and boiling twice.

    your Right m8, but its probably not the best example, especially for some of the more hardcore anti-vegie folk (maybe mum made em eat to many Brussels sprouts for dinner when they were younger)

    But you are right about that, there is even a grass in the UK i read about that grows in salt water marshes, & sheep graze on them very well, Ive even tatsed that lamb its a bit mre salty than normal but I like it more salty, since lamb is a little boring any ways.

    Ok So we have a couple of REAL solutions, somthing potentially More Economically Viable than Aquaculture structures if mounted on cheap Caissons.

    1. Grass that can grow in Salt water conditions, as longs its not under water more than 20% of the time (based on tides of the origonal place where they get submerged during High & low tides, yet are not harmed)
    2. Sheep Can EAT that grass & be healthy, Sheep are also used to living near the coast, lol some of the mini islands on the west coast of Scotland have large flocks of sheep, ive seen them during a storm they roll up like a hedge hog & tumble with the wind its so funny to watch (like a tumble weed for you cowboys)

    So you aint wrong Capistor.

    [/quote]

    hmmm well that might be interesting, though I doubt our floating islands will experience “tides” as they will float at the same level.

    Though it might be possible to produce such an ecozone, or use that grass for the land on the seastead.

    underwater we can use seagrasses like kelp, which like growing on rocks, so ferrocement should be okay.

    elspru wrote:

    Actually we can get all our dietary requirements from 100% seafood. Though we could have indoor gardens like you say,if we have some extra boats floating around, can reoutfit them as greenhouses.

    Yeh see, you missed the point, its not somthing 100% we need, like we dont need a toilet onboard, you only need to drop your kegs dump over the side,

    [/quote]

    Umm, well actually, on a seastead, while urine might be usable untreated as a nutrient solution.

    It would be best to compost feces, so as to take out any dangerous pathogens,

    the composted material can be used as land on the artifical island,

    for indoor plants, or can be mixed in with the ocean fertilizer.

    but its somthing we want, so we need it, now i like cooking & if i have to eat tuna without bresh Basil & Tomato’s im not gonna be happy, i need fresh things like SALAD, & they simply wont keep on extended journeys at sea.

    Fresh salad is fine, you can have that,

    simply made from seaalgaes,

    there are some green algaes, many red algaes and brown algaes,

    several other kinds as well, many of which can be eaten.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edible_seaweed

    So we SHOULD be talking about, not just Aquaculture, but also Hydroponics & how food production should be split up into food groups, & what solutions to each problem.

    Soil based plants are best grown on soil.

    Hydroponics and aeroponics, while being very productive,

    are also very high maintenance and if the fans stop blowing,

    or some other mechanical process disfunctions,

    can lose the whole crop.

    If it’s on soil,

    can leave come back,

    and it’s okay,

    as long as the soil is still there.

    elspru wrote:

    I know shellfish are abundant, though I’m still quite hesitant, as they are one of the easiest ways to die of food poisoning. So I was thinking of mainly using them for cement mixtures.

    so you think its ok to eat “tasty algea” but not shell fish, full of protean & fresh goodness…? (i was going to ask if your mad…but with hind sight from reading these forums i err will give it a miss skipper) lol I like you elspru your a real colorful sort.

    [/quote]

    :-)

    elspru wrote:

    Yes, we can have rings of security, with loyal members silent, just like the illuminati, to protect our acts.

    Or.. we could just Tell ISA what we are going to do,

    [/quote]

    Asking permission,

    gives them responsibility.

    If you want responsibility,

    do it with we and yourself.

    & ask if there is any good reason we should not do it. & if they have a reason, but some one else is doing it we just ignore them like every one else, & qoute the other case when confronted with the issue.

    Sure, we could simply avoid those that aren’t supporting our agendas.

    (Japan gets away with whaling because its Tasty ” Research”).

    They are doing it in an international sanctuary,

    the could do their mass whaling “research” outside of a sanctuary.

    There are relatively few ocean sanctuaries anyhow.

    I like your claim, & i see the idea, but I would not be standing on it at sea… I want proper construction, if you intend of selling them to people, they could be good for animals though, such as Caisson barges for grass to feed Sheep or Worm farming to feed chickens.

    CDF is a term used in marine construction for Computational Fluid Dynamics, there are special programs you can buy or pay lab’s to do CDF tests on ship designs, such as Numeca software, it helps you understand how your design will cope with the sea at its worst.

    I made a model from cardboard,

    and did some drop tests, float tests, wave tests.

    Seastead did quite well.

    The hexagonal or octagonal seasteads,

    can use structural steel due to large flat areas,

    hence can take quite a pounding.

    It can also be used for working out how long your structure will last in the Sea, since many things eat away at concrete when in salt water. (hope this helps).

    That’s the purpose of using sulphate-resistant cement,

    such as slag cement, or cement with high amounts of ash.

    elspru wrote:

    If you’re serious about seasteading. Do the research, you’ll find ferrocement is the best.

    Ferrocement, is one of the best options your right,

    If youl forgive me for indulging a reply to your remark; It would be more desirable to have a foating Island built & expanded around a sea mount that is built up above water,

    (offshore) to be used as a shallow bay & an anchor for your seasteads, than it would be to be trully offshore in deep water. (I will spare you the technical reasons why so).

    The book below sums up what i belive is the orderd way in which to aproach th whole issue of Starting a new nation at sea.

    Construction of marine and offshore structures (650 pages) by Ben. C. Gerwick Its somthing i suggest for you to read if you in serious about living on Caissons offshore. although its a pricey publication, its well worth it.

    [/quote]

    Well I made a thread about shallow spots

    http://seasteading.org/interact/forums/community/general-chat/ocean-shallow-spots

    Point is, we don’t yet know of any usable shallow spots.

    Rockall near UK has had nuclear waste dumped on it.

    We don’t have maps that can tell us the precise depth

    to the various subsurface mountain peaks.

    hehe wrote:

    calm (Party) aware (Wasted) desire (Cant be arsed) choice ( you dont have a wife heh) love (After she uses your Master Card) express (Killing a trafic warden trying to put a ticket on your truck) intuit (knowing, just knowing there is one beer in the fridge at the back) move (do i have to?)

    [/quote]

    I’d like to mention nomadic seasteading.

    We can do this even now, on boats,

    near the shore of most locations.

    for instance in ontario,

    there are now laws,

    that allow anchoring for up to 21 days,

    before having to move at least 100m.

    Though the policy can be made void,

    if the boat can’t be moved (surrounded by ice),

    or if there is written permission for it being there.

    Additionally I’ve been communicating with the people at the Freeman Society.

    I’ve drafted a homesteading contract (written permission for being somewhere).

    Homestead Contract

    Let place be ____________________
    Let resident be ___________________
    Let authority be Chakra Constitution.

    The resident is allowed to homestead the place by the authority.
    The resident can also do all the authority allows at the place.

    http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?f=184&t=6422

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #10914
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    there is A Law. The Law is that you can anchor ONLY up to 21 days. Then you have to move, OR they will MAKE you move. THEY do have the guns,…They claim jurisdiction upon the water too,…Land was not enough. …If you want to BE there, you have to ASK for PERMISSION. It seems to me that we have to ask for PERMISSION for FUCKING everything nowadays…OH yeah.

    What kind of FREEDOM is that, then?

    I am not questioning the Canadian so “called” LAW, but the “so called LAW” anywhere. Why not 23 DAYS or 39 DAYS @ anchor? Or why not WHATEVER? Who gives a shit? But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. The GOVERNMENT HAS to be IN CONTROL.

    Its PATHETIC.

    1. evoking or expressing pity, sympathy, etc.
    2. distressingly inadequate the old man sat huddled in front of a pathetic fire
    3. Brit informal ludicrously or contemptibly uninteresting or worthless the standard of goalkeeping in amateur football today is pathetic
    4. Obsolete of or affecting the feelings
    EVERYWHERE. ALL around us. Its insulting to a 40 IQ. And REALLY DISTURBING to a 145. I would rather be a 20 so I wont feel the PAIN….
    THE CALM AWERNESS OF A DESIRED LOVE CHOICE, INTUITIVELY SHOULD MAKE AN EXPRESS MOVE OUT OF HERE.
    #10916
    Profile photo of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    Well I can honestly say this is sounding like a “well regulated” minute man forum lol.

    #10917
    Profile photo of Terraformer
    Terraformer
    Participant

    A law where? In Canada? So what? Who’s going to be seasteading within 12nm of Canada anyway?

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Seasteading is to Boat Living what Traction Cities are to Vandwelling – simply a matter of scale.

    #10921
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Terraformer wrote:

    A law where? In Canada? So what? Who’s going to be seasteading within 12nm of Canada anyway?

    Well I live in Canada.

    So am going to start seasteading in lake Ontario.

    To get the boat, and get it self-sustaining.

    What I’m saying is that it can be done.

    Can sustain from foraged materials,

    especially if there is a fab lab.

    The benefit of Canada,

    is that it’s mostly vacant.

    http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/english/maps/peopleandsociety/population/population2006/popden2006

    Especially the northern parts,

    there are also large areas along the atlantic and pacific coast,

    which have on average less than 1 person per square kilometer.

    So if something happens there,

    really, no one will know.

    Secrecy of internal affairs,

    is considered privacy.

    And is what has allowed,

    societieis like the Illuminati,

    to flourish.

    Just as what happens in a biological cell,

    is protected by the cell wall,

    any intrusion on it,

    can kill the cell.

    While the blamers,

    are busy blaming each other.

    Poking each others cell walls,

    and bleeding each other to death.

    We can still share knowledge,

    of how things are done for instance.

    But what you do in we with your tribe,

    is your own affair.

    Also note that atoms move about,
    when a large-enough energy (money dinje) is applied to dislodge them.
    So if being paid more than what you get from your connection to the place,
    then be willing to relocate.

    http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?f=184&t=6422

    Ya note that Canadian Military only has 3 submarines.

    It’s possible Ellmer might have more than that.

    Also Canada recognizes “First Nations”

    Of tribal native peoples.

    We might be able to strike a deal with them,

    that they could also support the Chakra Constitution,

    or the universal right of people to homestead,

    can use them as a front,

    to claim land.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #10922
    Profile photo of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    to make it more fun you could tell us what country it comes from & we could guess ieie.

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