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the Law of the Sea

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This topic contains 24 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of elspru elspru 4 years, 6 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 25 total)
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  • #1221
    Profile photo of Altaica
    Altaica
    Participant

    United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea AKA the constitution of the sea only protects states from other states.

    Pleaure craft aren’t even mentioned in it. Only commercal vessels, warships and Goverment vessels. Flying under the flag of a country doesn’t give YOU any protection.

    Unflagged stateless vessel and flaged vessels other than commercal/warships enjoy the SAME PROTECTIONS. thou vessels with nationality are despised on sight a flaged non-commerial vessel that managed to earn the despise of a state is in just as much trouble.

    The flag of Rainbow Warrior didn’t do anything. and France was only punishment for violating New Zealand’s terrirtory while attacking the Rainbow Warrior.

    #9843
    Profile photo of i_is_j_smith
    i_is_j_smith
    Participant

    UNCLOS covers everything on the oceans. Pleasure craft, warships, rowboats…it doesn’t matter. If it is a boat it needs to be registered in some country and fly that country’s flag. If it is flying a nations flag it is considered part of that nation and can only be messed with if it is violating international laws or UN resolutions like arms smuggling or WMD transporting.

    If a vessel is not flying a flag then it has no protections and can be boarded and seized, at will, by warships of any other nation. It is assumed to be doing something bad.

    The Rainbow Warrior event had nothing to do with UNCLOS. It was a French secret service attack on a boat at dock. Two secret service agents were tried and found guilty of manslaughter. Granted they didn’t serve anything near what they should have for killing a person. But those are the political games that nations play and has nothing to do with the “law of the seas”.

    #9844
    Profile photo of Altaica
    Altaica
    Participant

    i_is_j_smith wrote:

    UNCLOS covers everything on the oceans.

    Where at in the UNCLOS does it say that a vessel without nationality can be boarded and seized?

    ouk emou alla tou logou akousantas homologein sophon estin hen

    #9845
    Profile photo of i_is_j_smith
    i_is_j_smith
    Participant

    Sigh. Nobody reads anymore

    Part VII, Article 110, Right of visit

    …a warship which encounters on the high seas a foreign ship, other than a ship entitled to complete immunity in accordance with articles 95 and 96, is not justified in boarding it unless there is reasonable ground for suspecting that:

    (d) the ship is without nationality;

    And I don’t click on weird, random links in people’s posts. I don’t know what that link is but you might want to remove it or at least name it something proper, or I might be temted to report the post to Mollom as spam.

    #9846
    Profile photo of Altaica
    Altaica
    Participant

    I guess ‘visit’ is the fancy international legalese term for seizure?

    #9864
    Profile photo of i_is_j_smith
    i_is_j_smith
    Participant

    If you are unflagged then, once they board you, they can do whatever they want and you have no recourse. They will, most likely, assume you are up to no good and tow you to port for searching.

    Not only have the navies of the developed world been focusing on anti-terror and anti-proliferation tasks, they have become very serious in enforcing anti-narcotic rules on the high seas. The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime are very quick to use Article 17 of the 1988 UN Convention against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances to stop, board, search, and seize unflagged vessels.

    So feel free to sail your vessel without being registered or flagged. But get used to spending time in the brig…

    #10226
    Profile photo of macdavis
    macdavis
    Participant

    i_is_j_smith wrote:
    get used to spending time in the brig…

    It’s nicer just to keep your drugs in baggies and tie them to rocks.

    #10282
    Profile photo of mike
    mike
    Participant

    Canada dropped the requirement to register pleasure craft, so you don’t need to fly the maple leaf. Also what about Admiralty law and private international law? Does Common law also have a say your rights at sea?

    #10285
    Profile photo of xiagos
    xiagos
    Participant

    Altaica wrote:

    Where at in the UNCLOS does it say that a vessel without nationality can be boarded and seized?

    Actually, the UNCLOS doesn’t say that, as far aas I can find. But, other provisions of international law do not recognize vessels without nationality, and may be be boarded and perhaps seized by any national authority. But, the UNCLOS is not a stand-alone treaty. It is an extension of other recognized laws and conventions that give nations the power to board and seize.

    Under international law, all vessels must be registered and fly the flag of the nation in which it is registered. A vessel may not have more than national resgistration, or fly more than one flag. A vessel cannot legally change flags during a voyage, or even in a port-of-call unless the ownership of the vessel has changed. A vessel not flying a flag may be stopped and boarded as a suspected unregistered vessel illegally operating on the high seas. If it is indeed unregistered, the vessel amy be declared a pirate vessel and seized.

    The part of the UNCLOS that concerns me is the requirement that all artifical islands, structures, and platforms must be registered and flagged. This effectively makes the creation of a sovereign, seastead all but impossible. The UNCLOS provides for nearby nations to board and seize such an island or structure built on its continental shelf.

    One way of dealing with this issue is to temporarily register the seastead with a non-UNCLOS nation, and then become independent when the seastead has grown sufficiently.

    #10286
    Profile photo of Terraformer
    Terraformer
    Participant

    From what I gather, the UN is what happens when established countries get together to vote themselves more power.

    I suppose you might have a case that your Seastead isn’t, technically, a ship… personally I’m of the opinion that by the time the number of seasteads grows to a sufficient size for the establishment to feel threatened, there’ll be enough of us – in collaboration with various arms dealers, of course – to sink any attacks they try to make.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Seasteading is to Boat Living what Traction Cities are to Vandwelling – simply a matter of scale.

    #10287
    Profile photo of xiagos
    xiagos
    Participant

    In my research I learned that nations are allowed to enforce their laws with 12 miles of shore. Further, they can defend their territory against military and criminal acts up to 24 miles out. Of course there is also the economic zone and continental shelf provisions.

    On the high seas themselves, nations also have additional authorities. Nations can enforce their laws on vessels registered to them. Further, they can enforce their own laws against foreign vessels (flagged or unflagged) that are threatening it own flagged vessels.

    BTW, the UNCLOS also deals with environmental pollution, underwater mining of the ocean bed, and navigation of territorial waters and the high seas. It applies to much more than just warships and commercial ships.

    #10288
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    I think that we had debated this subject several times in the last year, and @ least few times, me and Smitty we were about to go to war abut the subject. :-)

    Yes, UNCLOS says a lot of things. But it doesnt say ANYTHING that denies the will of few hundred (or thousand) people to build such seastead and declare it an “autonomous offshore territory”, choose and raise their own flag, and sail the seven seas.

    If we base our seasteading mentality to be “in line” with the actual status quo, than this is not a revolution but a waste of time. If we want a seasteading nation, than we have to make our own rules and be ready to defend what we consider rightfully ours. If we’re starting this journey by asking for “permission” to exist, than we are doomed….

    BUILD IT, FLAG IT, CREW IT, GO.

    #10291
    Profile photo of Terraformer
    Terraformer
    Participant

    The only problem with that is tat it’s practically inviting the powers that be to attack us. Then again, no country has attacked Sealand…

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Seasteading is to Boat Living what Traction Cities are to Vandwelling – simply a matter of scale.

    #10293
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    I dont know what you’re talking about,..What powers, and why attack us? That’s a bit paranoid,…

    #10299
    Profile photo of Altaica
    Altaica
    Participant

    Terraformer wrote:

    From what I gather, the UN is what happens when established countries get together to vote themselves more power.

    You are forgeting that it’s the ‘United Nations’ not the ‘United countrie’ or ‘United States'(pun not intented)

    THe UN was created to with the idea that every Nation(A significant early use of the term nation, as natio, was at mediaeval universities, to describe the colleagues in a college or students, above all at the University of Paris, who were all born within a pays, spoke the same language and expected to be ruled by their own familiar law. In 1383 and 1384, while studying theology at Paris, Jean Gerson was twice elected procurator for the French natio (i.e. the French-born Francophone students at the University). See Wikipedia’s Nation entry) would be given it’s own Nation-State. That’s why the Jews were given the State of Israel. Remember that Racial Hygiene in the forms of forced sterilization and segregation where still popular for decades after WWII.

    ouk emou alla tou logou akousantas homologein sophon estin hen

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