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Israel raids civilian flotilla in International Waters.

Home Forums Research Law and Politics Israel raids civilian flotilla in International Waters.

This topic contains 23 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Shouri Shouri 4 years, 3 months ago.

Viewing 9 posts - 16 through 24 (of 24 total)
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  • #10441
    Profile photo of i_is_j_smith
    i_is_j_smith
    Participant

    According to the Disengagement plan, as of 2005 Israel does not consider itself the occupying force. They consider the Gaza Strip to be one of the Palestinian territories and not part of Israel…they do not claim it as theirs.

    Now I fully understand that they want to stop people from launching rockets into their sovereign territory, so the blockade makes sense. But what I don’t condone is half-measures. Simply state that Israel will consider any rockets launched from the Gaza Strip (or anywhere else) as an attack and thus an act of war. Blockading a nation that you are at war with is fine. Blockading another sovereign nation with which you currently have no active conflict is not.

    I also fully believe that the aid convoy was sent with the dual purpose of hopefully causing just such an incident and further isolating Israel from the nations around it, especially Turkey with which it had pretty decent relations. That was the sole fault of the Israeli forces. They could have easily rendered the ship inoperable with a few shots at the engines/props or using an entanglement device and then towed the vessels to port. Instead they dropped soldiers equipped with paintball guns at night into a poorly-researched environment filled with people who hate them. Not smart.

    #10464
    Profile photo of Thorizan
    Thorizan
    Participant

    Turkey is no longer trying to get into the EU. It’s pivoting to get in good with another power broker in the region. This was the admission cost.

    __________________________________________________
    There is no fate but what we make for ourselves. Each to his fate.

    #10468
    Profile photo of wohl1917
    wohl1917
    Participant

    I’m not going to argue the point except I think ‘this’ is just a down payment. I just wish I believed you were wrong. What’s your take on this Shouri?

    < http://ocr.wikia.com/wiki/Oceanic_Citizens_Republic_Wiki>

    Profile photo of OceanPhoenix
    OceanPhoenix
    Participant

    The situation in Israel is dodgy. There are not many other nations that would intercept a humanitarian aid convoy on a rumour that it is carrying weapons. Those that would, would likely assess the situation before charging in at stick-armed civilians all guns blazing. Israel is a one-off. Here’s a solution: don’t build your seastead close to Israel. Or Somalia. In most places, the largest threat we are likely to face is a few small-scale pirate attacks. And that’s only if we are in a dodgy area. For instance, I can’t see many pirate attacks off the coast of New Zealand, or even in the middle of the Indian Ocean; who would bother going that far out to sea to attack a community of people in their own little town, a few of them likely armed, and an organised (if small) almost definitely armed police force?

    #10504
    Profile photo of nillo
    nillo
    Participant

    A seastead in the middle of the Indian Ocean sounds like a great base for piratical activities. It would be even better if someone else invested the capital in the infrastructure.

    #10593
    Profile photo of Alan
    Alan
    Participant

    Shouri wrote:

    I watched all videos regarding the incident and i am Turkish myself but i still think Israel wouldn’t do such a stupid thing, this whole thing might sound like a complo theory to most of you, but my family includes some ex-politicans who could well forsee many moves of this government years beforehand and after some long debate we all concluded the same thing.

    [...]

    (though i still don’t understand how Israel ate such a bait, I always thought of them as exceptionally intelligent and capable people especially when it comes to strategy and gathering of intelligence,

    Just because the Israelis are above average doesn’t make them infallible.

    Besides that, there is precedent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

    As others have indicated, the situation is complex and none of the sides are innocent, though of course many civilians on all sides are.

    But it should serve as a reminder to all that nation-states seldom play by their own rules.

    #10594
    Profile photo of Alan
    Alan
    Participant

    Thorizan wrote:

    Turkey is no longer trying to get into the EU. It’s pivoting to get in good with another power broker in the region. This was the admission cost.

    I don’t know about the second statement, but after traveling through Turkey last December and January I think you are right about the first point. The people I was able to speak to were opposed to joining the EU, even if the EU were now willing to accept Turkey.

    The recent economic troubles have probably reinforced this opinion.

    I also found the Turkish people to be quite pleasant and generally sensible. It’s a great place to travel.

    #10595
    Profile photo of Alan
    Alan
    Participant

    i_is_j_smith wrote:
    That was the sole fault of the Israeli forces. They could have easily rendered the ship inoperable with a few shots at the engines/props or using an entanglement device and then towed the vessels to port. Instead they dropped soldiers equipped with paintball guns at night into a poorly-researched environment filled with people who hate them. Not smart.

    Likewise, they could have just waited until the convoy was no longer in international waters. They were intending to head through 12 nautical miles of non-international waters anyway – plenty of space for the Israeli Navy to board them.

    #10621
    Profile photo of Shouri
    Shouri
    Participant

    Recep Tayyip Erdoğan our prime minister, is a former member of ‘Refah Partisi’ and he is a well known member of the Muslim Lobby, i think this summarizes the sitiuation. He was the governer of our metropol Istanbul for almost 10 years as a Refah Partisi(Prosperity Party) member, I guess this lobby is trying to create a country similar to United Emirates.

    Just a few months ago we(my business partner n me) were trekking in someplace named Urla, wandering in forests, camping ‘n stuff. 70% of the land in the region is under the jurisdiction of Orman Bakanlığı(Ministry of Forestry) our ministry of forestry rents forest lands for really low prices. So we were taking soil samples asking local villagers about groundwaters in the locale etc. previously we checked the local forest via sat. pics and found there were quite a few sweetspots, we went to ministry and asked about the spots we’ve found and learnt that most of the forest is heritage site since there are archeological remains of an ancient greek town under the forest, so our project was rejected (we were planning to start an almond orchard). Guess what, a week later almost whole forest with flat terrain somehow became the property of Abdullah Gül’s brother, and archeological sites belonging forest ministry can’t be sold legally sigh..(Abdullah Gül is our former prime minister and a close friend of Tayyip Erdoğan)I guess within 15 years or so Turkey will have an hybrid of oligarchy/theocracy as her national idealogy. I won’t be here by then hopefully.

    Returning to subject, in 1997 Turkey sent humanitarian aid ships to Albania however they didn’t return empty. Soliders in my locale were usually wielding G-3 assault rifles which is the standart a.rifle in Turkey however few days after the arrival of h.aid ships they switched to Ak-47 for some weird reason. Some media agencies started rumors about Turkey smuggling weapons from Albania, then military HQ declared that these AK-47s are pillaged from PKK bases, according the official announcements then there should be 46.000 AK-47s in our arsenal however there are hundreds of thousands of them. Probably media was pressured and they gave up, we never heard any news about it later on. I guess all nations around with some working intelligence agency is aware of what Turkey did. If i was Israil i too would stop Turkey’s humanitarian aid ships i guess.(btw all G-3s were sent to eastern provinces where terrorist activity was a daily routine)

    United Emirates suddenly started to work with Turkey’s defence industry and ordered quite a few armaments from ASELSAN(100% Turkish). Iran and S.Arabia started to buy more from FNSS(a partly Turkish owned Armoured Vehicle manufacturer). These are interesting facts. Seems this Israil incident will benefit Turkey’s economy in the long run…

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