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Introducing bitcoins

Home Forums Community Introductions Introducing bitcoins

This topic contains 13 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of caveden caveden 2 years, 12 months ago.

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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  • #1375
    Profile photo of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    Hello,

    Well, first of all, a quick introduction of myself. I’m a Brazilian libertarian that watched the video of a speech of Patri Friedman on the Brazilian Mises Institute conference held in Porto Alegre. Since then, I’m very interested by seasteading. I think it’s the best way to reach a libertarian society, or at least get close to it.

    But I did not create this topic to introduce myself. I created it because another project has captured my attention recently, and I think I should introduce it to you – pardon me if you already know about it, but my research on the forum found no results.

    I’m talking about Bitcoins.

    Bitcoin is a P2P Cryptocurrency. That is, a form of currency based on cryptography and digital signature, with no central authority. Transactions are verified by a distributed network, as well as the “coinage” of new coins. The inflation rate is hardcoded on the algorithm. Everybody can be an issuer of bitcoins, but no issuer can control the monetary inflation rate, wich is set to rapidly decrease, until stopping completly once the total ammount of bitcoins get close enough to the assymptotic limit of 21 million. It is sound money with no central issuer to be shut down by governments.

    You can read more on the site linked above. I wrote a text about them myself, here is the automatic translation to English.

    I’m an enthusiast of bitcoins as I am an enthusiast of seasteading. During his speech, Patri Friedman emphasized that too much effort is spent in trying to convince people of libertarian ideas, while too few effort is spent into actually trying to do something. Well, the bitcoin project is a really creative attempt of creating a new, sound money.

    I ask you to consider reading about this project and, if you like it, consider accepting bitcoins donations directly from the Seasteading project site. It would be really nice for both projects – bitcoins would be promoted by an important project like the seasteading instute, and the seasteading institute would provide a way for people to donate anonymously, not to mention the potential increase in value bitcoins may yet experience.

    For you to have an idea in numbers, the first bitcoin transaction was a pizza delivery for more than 20.000 BTC if I remember well. Today, one bitcoin is worth something around 0,18USD. All 4,44 million BTC in existance today sum up 734.691 USD according to bitcoin watch, and the project is barely 2 years old!

    Well, that’s it for now. If you had questions about bitcoins, I’ll be happy to try to answer them. You may also check the official site, there are foruns there too.

    Best regards!

    #11760
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    It would make sense to accept donationsin other digital currencies as well, like Loom.cc, Pecunix, c-gold (not e-gold), Goldmoney, and Liberty Reserve.

    I like the P2P nature of Bitcoin, though it has no real backing so is still fiat (faith in it again tomorrow) currency. Open Transactions show great promise as a P2P currency, http://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki . Trubanc, http://trubanc.com:8080/ , is also in testing and looks promising, sort of like loom.cc but with encryption, where the user can create his own digital currency using anything as backing.

    #11772
    Profile photo of Eric-Jacobus
    Eric-Jacobus
    Participant

    Hi caveden, welcome to the board! Cool and relevant idea, but it’s better suited for one of the other forums (“Philosophy and Law” perhaps, or maybe “Infrastructure”), as this section is dedicated to personal introductions. Thanks!

    Eric Jacobus
    Office Manager / Communications Coordinator
    The Seasteading Institute

    #11782
    Profile photo of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    Captchas and bandwidth are more viable commodities to back a currency on. They both have inherit market value as is. It just doesn’t seem reasonable to try and get people on board with a currency that doesn’t have any inherrit value. The tipping point barrier is just too high.

    Once you create a market that allows you to exchange things of real value: that technology shows promise. It’ll be judged by it’s user friendliness, that’s where most DGCs fail.

    Oh wait. You’re seriousLet me laugh even harder.

    I’m not a troll… I’m you!

    #11791
    Profile photo of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    Hello all,

    @Eric,

    Thank you, I’ll copy this thread to the infrastructure section.

    @admiral,

    The problem with fiat money as we now it is the fact that it may be printed at will by governments. Bitcoins cannot. Being a contract or not is irrelevant. Gold is not backed by anything (is not a contract), but since it’s a commodity so difficult to “create”, it’s a very good option for money. Bitcoins will eventually get even harder to create than gold. ;-)

    @tusavision,

    Nothing has inherit value. ;-) The value of stuff is not a characteristic of stuff, it is an opinion people have on stuff. I know it’s “purism” to say it, but it’s important to notice the difference, because if value was inherit, doing something that changes the value of somebody else property would be a violation of this person’s property rights…

    Best regards!

    #11792
    Profile photo of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    The spam filter is blocking me from creating the topic on the other section :(

    I tried removing the links and it wasn’t enough. Weird, last time it had proposed me a captcha. Now it just blocks.

    #11794
    Profile photo of Alan
    Alan
    Participant

    Value is certainly in the mind of the beholder, but why would anyone value bitcoins?

    I could take a piece of paper, divide it into 20 parts, and scribble on each part – then claim that I will never make any more and that as more people accept my “scribblescraps” as currency their value will soar. I’ll be rich!

    It sounds about as plausible as “bitcoins”.

    I’m also not sure how effective a currency will be that cannot be expanded to be available to the majority of the world’s population. Gold at least has something like $5 trillion available in reserves.

    #11795
    Profile photo of Ken Sims
    Ken Sims
    Keymaster

    caveden wrote:

    The spam filter is blocking me from creating the topic on the other section :(

    I tried removing the links and it wasn’t enough. Weird, last time it had proposed me a captcha. Now it just blocks.

    We use a third-party spam filtering system and it has a mind of its own. I particularly don’t understand why it objected to the version without any links. I copied your next-to-attempt (the one still with links) and posted into the Infrastructure forum. Everyone please continue the bitcoins discussion here: http://seasteading.org/interact/forums/engineering/infrastructure/introducing-bitcoins

    #11797
    Profile photo of tusavision
    tusavision
    Participant

    caveden wrote:

    Nothing has inherit value. ;-) The value of stuff is not a characteristic of stuff, it is an opinion people have on stuff. I know it’s “purism” to say it, but it’s important to notice the difference, because if value was inherit, doing something that changes the value of somebody else property would be a violation of this person’s property rights…

    Best regards!

    Let me start by saying: I’m not poo-pooing the idea of bitcoins. I’ve been a long time fan of the project. It’s important for the cryptography to be researched and developed so that when someone comes up with a legit commodity to back this new currency on: it has value.

    This isn’t the bronze age. People aren’t going to take a digital currency at face value and I remain unconvinced that leveraging the computerized equivilent of makework/featherbedding is going to get the job done. It’s more realistic to create a distributed hash cracking/rainbow tables generation market where idle computers work on contests like this for prize money: http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=2091

    I’m here because I’m trying to escape humanity. Working on this problem bears a remarkable resemblance to mitigating it.

    Oh wait. You’re seriousLet me laugh even harder.

    I’m not a troll… I’m you!

    #15878
    Profile photo of argv
    argv
    Participant

    Alan wrote:

    Value is certainly in the mind of the beholder, but why would anyone value bitcoins?

    Because on exchanges like MtGox you can change it to all other kind of stuff that also has no use value, e.g. EUR, USD, Gold …

    It doesn’t matter if you value it, as long as others do. I do not value EUR at all, but I accept it as a salary because I can change it to Bitcoins.

    #15879
    Profile photo of Pastor_Jason
    Pastor_Jason
    Participant

    The existence of an exchange does not guarantee the perpetual value of an item. When the percieved value plummets the exchange is helpless to artifically hold a standard of value. Gold on the other-hand has a universal value in disparate cultures and is accepted everywhere in the world.

    In the end, the capacity to provide for your own needs and the needs of others regardless of the circumstances of the world around you has a value that cannot be matched. That’s my definition of wealth and currency. Everything else is an illusion we all accept so that we can fall asleep each night.

    #15889
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Bitcoin will be useful to connect independent and federated server based community currency and transactions systems. The other two legs of the tripod are Ripple ( http://ripple-project.org/ ) which facilitates transfers among unknown parties via a chain of trust to issue credit for later settlement among parties known to each other, and Open Transactions ( https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki ),an anonymous contract based trading system which can be used to issue digital currencies, currency baskets, digital bearer share certificates, digital bearer bonds, bills of exchange or real bills, and pretty much any other type of financial instrument – futures, derivatives, and more fun stuff.

    #16142
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Looks like Bitcoin may have hit a bottom and stabilizing, http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg360zvztgSzm1g10zm2g25 shows it 2.50-3 USD the last couple of weeks. If this holds a while longer, it will look very good as a solid alternative currency.

    #16145
    Profile photo of caveden
    caveden
    Participant

    I wouldn’t expect stable prices any time soon. The “market cap” is still very small. With a little amount you can provoke a considerable change in price.

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