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Infrastructure open thread

Home Forums Archive Infrastructure Infrastructure open thread

This topic contains 18 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of nagydani nagydani 5 years, 5 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 19 total)
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  • #428
    Avatar of Patri
    Patri
    Keymaster

    here

    #1774
    Avatar of greyraven_r
    greyraven_r
    Participant

    I noticed on the research page the mention of diesel generators as a possible energy supply, but the resupply of said diesel was noted as a problem rather than a solution. Perhaps an onboard TSI industry of producing biodiesel from algae could solve that. This is not the only info out there, this is actually just the first of 1,380,000 search results from a yahoo search for biodiesel algae http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html so I would imagine for someone with the time and technical knowhow it would be quite feasible as a research direction.

    #1776
    Avatar of Joep
    Joep
    Participant

    Growing algae is really cool because the yield/acre is extremely high compared to any other crop. The problem is that it is very expensive. Especially getting the algae out of the water, and the oil out of the algae requires an expensive centrifuge or substances like hexane. The reason algae are commercially grown is because of the other substances that come out of it; strains like Chlorella and Spirulina are being sold as food supplements and used in cosmetics and pharmacy.

    There are two ways to grow them, open and closed systems. Open systems are cheaper and a lot simpler (almost all commercial growers use raceway ponds), but I think nearly impossible at sea. You have almost no control on temperature, acidity etcetera, but worse is that contamination with other algae is more likely in windy situations with a lot of competing algae (and bacteria) in the air. This might be overcome by using a fresh water strain, but then the water gets expensive (and maybe polluted with salt in no time). Closed systems are more expensive, and the major disadvantage: you’d have to import nutrients, (clean) C02, and methanol, make very expensive diesel, and export the cake that’s left. Just importing diesel (or fuel oil, which is even cheaper) is probably a lot easier.

    Algae are very interesting stuff though, and the whole world seems to be experimenting. Yesterday I ordered a tube of Chlorella minutissima to start my first backyard experiments :)

    #1783
    Avatar of WorBlux
    WorBlux
    Participant

    It seems like you’re overlooking a very valuable, and space minimizing, low maintenance animal crop. Insects are very nutrient dense and are more efficient per square foot and per pound of feed required.

    Can’t seem to get the comments in the book to work correctly, so I’m adding this here.

    #1787
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    FROM: Brock d’Avignon
    Presider
    NICCO
    RE: 28 years research headstart
    1) artificial coral accrete
    2) pizzahedron structure able to tacke all the oceans can dish out: torque, compression, tension simultaneously
    3) Earth has a weather eye, yours truly discoverer 1985 from IOGA satellite data
    4) direct current electric sources allows you to grow your own free-form architecture buildings out of calcium carbonate and magnesium hydroxide on galvanized steel mesh from IEEE discoveries first published in 1970.
    5) Freeland III Conference in 1980 led to NICCO and the proposed Freedominiums of New Hong Kong, New Merica, et al with would-be Sam Adams and Abigail Adams and a variety of volitonal scientists, engineers, technicians, and libertarians.
    6) Allied experimenters in other groups have figured out 51 ways to make money out of seawater.
    7) Fish farming is the only major ROI of 300:1 in about 5 years, given the current world food riots with oil based fertilizer for land based agriculture, mariculture looks mighty attractive to investment bankers. See LL Bean and native american college experiments.
    8) Fish farming instead of hunting and gathering not only allows more protein production but is renewable versus getting the sea fished out; one has to balance the numbers of varieties of fish grown so as to not overwhelm other species habitats.
    9) The artificial coral accrete grows best in the open ocean where there are more calcium ions in abundance, close to shore or in a bay the sealife like kelp and fish use up the calcium ions, however, the open ocean is otherwise a desert, yes ready to be colonized with a variety of volietal experiments.
    10) 60-million people have seen articles about NICCO over the years: LA Times View section front page color “Grow Your Own Island”, Outside Magazine “Let Freedominium Ring”, and best interviews of 1993 by the Copley Radio Network. Each time we picked up engineers, physicists, and veterans of 116 wars and hydro-electric dams that wanted to help such a vision as you have announced.
    11) I usually work as a teacher and have my summers open for some income to to offer you reams of lessons learned if you would like to drain my brain and save you several years of groping for what technologies work best as a synergistic effort. I got into other media projects that distracted me as much as virtual high school creation et cetera. I am familiar with most other free country projects with the same stated goals as yours, your goal of sovereignty is the key to getting you out to sea. Inside other folks’ sovereignty, you lose.
    12) I preside, not rule, and ally, and have a vast storehouse of good research and optimum choices among them, a few examples: try http://www.hydrolance.net or the windward foundation, but throw me the money first and to my chief scientist Dr. Ron Wroblewski, and my Executive Director howardhinman1234@yahoo.com (a paralegal and expert on offshore gold trust banking) to make a deal for at least the three of us your funding seems to be seeking as employees. I have other NICCOnauts available from airliner pilots to people in Costa Rica and friends in 90 countries via the International Society for Individual Liberty see isil.org as a founding member.
    13) Oh, I found you by typing in the first letters of Patrick McGoohan of actor Prisoner fame, and accidentally hit the enter button after Patri. Somewhat ironic don’t you think on the same day as your press release? I never minded patrician Ben Cartwright of the Bonanza ranch, and I’m known as the Captain of Spaceship Earth for other reasons, however, I would be happy to work for you this summer. I am a developer of comprehensive universal health & medical care in the free market, other uses of Percentage As You Earn (PAYE) finance for housing ( the current mortgage meltdown of rigid fixed long-term agreements that can’t be flexible is keeping me busy otherwise) that can finance your seasteads and bring you millions in publicity if played right from the Bay to Wall Street media. I will be creating other opportunities soon, so if you want me, make us an offer.

    Good Health and Happiness To You In Freedom,
    Brock d’Avignon

    #1788
    Avatar of WorBlux
    WorBlux
    Participant

    Insects are a good source of omega fatty acids, protein, are space and feed efficient. In other words a good choice for a limited space and storage environment of a floating outpost.

    #1789
    Avatar of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I found this video about hydrogen http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2006/09/electrolysis_of_water_explodin.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890

    Also look at wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis

    I also recall a bingo project that uses iron rods from batterys

    #1791
    Avatar of greyraven_r
    greyraven_r
    Participant

    I used to have a cook book “Entertaining With Insects”, there is a certain feasibility to supplementing a balanced diet with insects, the main problem with it is the taboo of eating bugs. Unless they’re processed I would prefer larger types of insects, I just don’t like tiny food as much.

    #1831
    Avatar of Patri
    Patri
    Keymaster

    Brock – sounds like you have some interesting experience in this area, congratulations on getting so much publicity. With respect to #1 and #9, you might want to read our book and learn about the problems with seacrete. I seem to remember seeing somewhere that you are in CA? If you ever get to the Bay Area drop me a line and we can chat.

    #1954
    Avatar of Jesrad
    Jesrad
    Participant

    Just a thought in passing: during the XVIIth century the diminutive republic of Holland managed to ward off France’s huge land army (400 000 men supported by heavy artillery) thanks to the Dutch Water Line. Some form of flood ability or even (reversible) complete submersibility might prove just as useful and efficient for preventing the complete loss or theft of a seastead in case of invasion.

    Ack. Just realised this belongs in Structure discussions, not infrastructure. Deleting posts is not (yet) possible ?

    #1982
    Avatar of thebastidge
    thebastidge
    Participant

    Or biodeisel from fish, or whaling.

    #1986
    Avatar of thebastidge
    thebastidge
    Participant

    Actually, tho some types of algae and seaweed are high in oil for potential biodiesel, fish are probably better. Plant life might be better at producing ethanol, which has a variety of useful potentials.

    #2148
    Avatar of Firefool125
    Firefool125
    Participant

    it would probably be best to stay away from the incredibly dangerous biofuels just because it actually takes more gas to make biodisiesel than it does to just use gasoline.

    1. Also there is approximately 2850 ZJ of energy per year available in the oceans due to current and other such things, All of the potential energy available in the ocean is equal to 68,116,634,799,200 tons of TNT or 45,238,095,238 atomic bombs that are equal to the one that was dropped on hiroshima (ZJ) of energy available to the earth per year ,
    2. Another reason to stay away from biofuels is that in solar energy there is is approximately 3850 zettajoules, All of the potential energy available from solar energy is equal to 92,017,208,413,000 tons of TNT or 61,111,111,111 atomic bombs equal to the one that was dropped on hiroshima, ,
    3. Wind energy is also more welcoming than biofuels as a source of energy because Winds can theoretically supply 6 ZJ of energy per year.[14], All of the potential wind energy available is equal to 1,434,034,416,830 tons of TNT or 95238095 atomic bombs equal to the one that was dropped on hiroshima
    4. It is an important fact to note that in 2004 the world energy consumption was only .471 ZJ, All of the energy used in 2004 was equal to 112,571,701,721 tons of TNT or 7476190 atomic bombs equal to the one that was dropped on hiroshima
    • All of this clearly points to the fact that there is more than enough energy available by more enviromentally friendly means than biofuels

    #2159
    Avatar of Jesrad
    Jesrad
    Participant

    What does a pizzahedron look like ? I couldn’t find any info, not even by looking for Wrobleski and Scalisi which you mention in another message posted elsewhere. I had figured construction could be done using a tessellable prism shape, but don’t have yet one that is good for compression, torque and compression all at once.

    #2162
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    There is no doubt that the Sun produces an awful lot of energy. The question is how much it costs to capture and use it (with currently available technology). I´m not sure what those zettajoule numbers come from, but I can´t help but suspect that you are suggesting that we cover the entire Earth in one hundred percent efficient solar panels. Or possibly build a Dyson Sphere out of the same material. I have nothing against this, in principle. But I´m guessing this will take a while. In the meantime I suggest we use the cheapest way to produce energy available today.

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