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The Hungry Push the Frontiers – look at south american jungle mining – for pioneer reality

Home Forums Research Law and Politics The Hungry Push the Frontiers – look at south american jungle mining – for pioneer reality

This topic contains 8 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of ellmer - http://yook3.com ellmer – http://yook3.com 4 years, 3 months ago.

Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)
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  • #1154
    From a thread that brought up the importance of a store for seasteaders i realized that we have a lot of nice middleclass and intelectual talk about driving forces of pioneering – do we overlook how pioneering reality is today – and has always been in history?

    Every dusty pioneer nest has a kind of store – trade companies that supplied stores in the outback always have been the backbone of pioneer life – and development. The interesting question is – what will the seasteader trade with his store or tradecompany?

    Here in southamerica we still have goldrush cities that grow overnight in the jungle, a environment at least as hostile as the open sea, mining settelments, emeralds, metals, it is obvious what they trade back – it is obvious what kind of central role the store, the bar, the mechanic shop, the transport, plays in their development, interesting thing is – what will the seasteader EXTRACT from the ocean to make it work.

    Maybe we should let go the condo and living of land based savings ideas and look a bit more on the extraction part – if you can offer it – POOR and adventurous people become pioneers – this is where things take off in the jungle – real frontiers has always has been pushed by the poor , the hungry, the desperate, the audacious, people seeking a better life – not by the saturated ones that want to take all their luxury with them.

    I would like to invite you to visit a illegal mining settlement here in colombia to see how real frontiers in real harsh environment work socially, economically, – this is real eye opener…. maybe we should focus on just supplying flotation and extraction tools citizenship for the poor – and it takes off like a gold rush.

    Wil

    #9078
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    That’s a valid point. Unfortunately I’m one of the “saturated” middle-class types who’s deeply attracted to the concept, but is having to put things off due to family, career etc reasons.

    Are you suggesting that you/TSI provide the real pioneers you mention above with the 3000 USD floating platform you’ve described on another thread? It is a intriguing and promising idea. Personally I agree that these people are the ones with the most incentive and inclination to try this out. Maybe you should speak to some of these guys with experience of the sea and get their feedback?

    One question: what about mobility for these platforms? You would need some means of avoiding drift/beaching.

    #9081

    (saturated…) – Yes me too – probably most of us sitting in front of a computer – we have a chance to pioneer in the second line when the wilde pioneer front, where life is worth a penny, has moved forward and left bigger more comfortable, more secure, more organized, settlements behind. Or you are romantic like Jack London and take part of the wild frontier to write about it for later generations…

    (suggest…) – I am suggesting exactly that. If you have closer look to the goldrush settlements in the jungle there is a surprising strong role for the tech supply man and the commerce man to make it happen – he brings in the generator, the housing, – and he extracts the gold from the hands of the miners – he is surprisingly comfortable, rich, and sometimes even a good person, and has a good nose for what the miners need to survive and extract. He does not sell “condo plans” but he gives “credit ” for getting started to people that would not get a credit from a bank.

    (speak with..) – I have already spoken with many of those people, lived with them, fished with them, extracted with some of them – in certain sense i am not only market development manager but also romantic.

    See it that way – if you live where a human life has a “market value” of USD 100 – and your kids no future – if someone offered you a decent chance to be pioneer for ocean living – would YOU take it ?

    (mobility…) – You get most size and sturdiness if you make it round and curved – if you live on it, it can move very slow – you have a boat to do the movement part – it is like floating tuna processing units – just on a much smaller “personal scale” – the processing and housing unit is stationary or slow – the catch boats move around.

    I think we can leave the mooring and seamanship part to the fishermen and should only focus on things that a poor fisherman could not possibly solve and just make them available. The fishing part and mooring part is a thing he already does on a dayly base – what he can not do right now is decent affordable housing near fishing or other extraction grounds.

    Wil

    #9084
    Avatar of livefreeortry
    livefreeortry
    Participant

    Are you planning to build one now? Maybe you should try a 1:4 scale one first and see how it behaves before building a full scale 6 meter one. My worry is that in rough waters it might either sway a lot or be overtopped by waves..

    #9085

    In fact the 6m one is still “just a toy” and a test for what we have in mind – we have done small scale model testing… i am sure it will work just fine. The challange is the know how build up process, to optimize construction, push down the cost, all things you have to learn by doing it … you have one set of ideas when thinking about it in theory – a different set of ideas comes up when you are doing it. I am not planning doing it – i am doing it for a long time – i have built floating concrete shell structures for the last thirty years – and i am planning to do a lot more…

    Wil

    #9090
    Avatar of Swanberg
    Swanberg
    Participant

    I would like to invite you to visit a illegal mining settlement here in colombia to see how real frontiers in real harsh environment work socially, economically, – this is real eye opener…. maybe we should focus on just supplying flotation and extraction tools citizenship for the poor – and it takes off like a gold rush.

    Please send me the details, will you be there this summer?

    Swanberg

    #9095

    Hello Swanberg – although i organized adventure tourism on horseback a couple of years ago – a mining camp is not exactly a place you should go for vacation…especially if your face and language announce you as a foreigner, but there a lots of places in colombia where the only danger is that you will want to stay.

    Wil

    #9099
    Avatar of Swanberg
    Swanberg
    Participant

    Hello Swanberg – although i organized adventure tourism on horseback a couple of years ago – a mining camp is not exactly a place you should go for vacation…especially if your face and language announce you as a foreigner, but there a lots of places in colombia where the only danger is that you will want to stay.

    Wil

    Then please enlighten me as to who you were inviting to see an illegal mining settlement. Unless of course you weren’t serious and your post was just a self-interested way of informing others of your own opinions.

    But I doubt that. Personally, I think you’re on to something. If we could document and study the pioneering society, it would give valuable insight for a Seastead. For instance, how is waste stored? Where does food come from and how is it shipped? As an American, I only see the food once it’s packaged in my grocery store. Books like The Omnivore’s Dilemma by Michael Pollan have helped me understand how the food gets there. But an illegal mining settlement wouldn’t have the laws and regualtions we have in America. Furthermore, understanding the society will show us what the natural human tendences are towards social organization.

    An illegal mining settlement would give anyone who visited it a basic idea on what we need to survive. Granted you could go read Maslow’s Hierarchy, but that doesn’t include the technical problems we would face.

    Look Wil, my descent is Irish Spanish, I’m Roman Catholic, and I understand basic Spanish. In Colombia 58% of the population is of mixed European ancenstry, close to 85% of the country is Roman Catholic, and the main language is Spanish. It wouldn’t seem too far fetched to visit the settlement.

    Suggesting I go on an organized tourist trip on horseback, instead of visiting the mining camp, is insulting.

    You have stumbled upon something of immense value. A society that moves depending on the resources available and has no official government. I could only hope that you or another person could document this finding and use it to further Seasteading.

    Swanberg

    #9104

    Hello Swanberg, the social set up of a jungle mining camp is crude, not philosophical driven, but extraction driven, basicly social darwinism, with no further rules. It was not my intention to send you on a tourist trip nor insult you – sorry if it came over that way.

    The point is pioneering and pioneer settlements has always been a thing where poor people get a chance to extract something and prosper in a way that makes them leave behind what they have at the moment and – go there. The window of opportunity for those poor people is opened by something or somebody – The railroad, the East India Tranding Company, Sail ship development, The “Patron” in a jungle camp.

    In fact i can not think of a single occasion where a pioneer settlement movement was unlocked by a “Masterplan of development”.

    So my suggestion is to identify the factors that inhibit the poor fishermen who now settle on the shore of the ocean and already extract their living from it, to go further out there and live there permanently.

    When you ask a fisherman if he would take the chance of a floating platform that allows him to go to any fishing ground and stay there freezing the catch – paying it back at the cost of a lobster weekly – on long term, you can have hundreds of thousands of seasteading volontiers from a single south american costal town.

    The problem is – nobody offers a chance of a floating living right now – this exists only for the yacht segment, for industrial fishing, for oil and gas industry.

    Once you make it available – the movement goes off. There was no settlement while visiting other continents was a thing of small scientific, and navy elites – settlement came with mass shipment of the poor.

    So i would focus on creating cheap and resistant floating units for low budgets – and see what people will do with them – i am sure they will seastead.

    Wil

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