How much would you pay to live on a Seastead?
May 7, 2014 at 7:35 pm #23477
There is a big difference between expecting a floating city to have retail establishments (which I do expect), and expecting a floating city to have
presence of a Walmart (or Sears, or Target, or Belk, or Home Depot, or Fastenall, or Staples, Food Giant, or etc) must also be on the same boat with you
(which I did not say and do not expect).May 8, 2014 at 6:27 am #23478
Port of Cartagena – all supply for a urban lifestyle comes in here…
Ken, i think your idea “I want/need a turnkey residence on a true floating city.” is a very good one. In early discussions on the forums there was a concept error in assuming that as this is a “new frontier” a “hands on pionieer type” would be necessary to develop it.
We live in a globalized world “urban living style” is what 90% of all people do. The food on the table in a city apartment comes from a container that comes by sea-freight and supplies your local supermarket. The key to understand is “SEA FREIGHT” technically a Baystead is a “port city” by nature. So access to anything that circulates in the global trade streams in containers is much easier and economic than for a land city, what means supply is easier, prices are lower than for a land city.
Also if you call a plumber to your penthouse in Manhattan at 9 o clock in the morning he will charge you an hour traffic jam, half an hour waiting for the elevator in a crowd of people in the building and the effort of carrying all stuff by hand as the access in truck is not possible due to parking restrictions. This makes plumber service in Manhattan expensive. A baystead in sight of Manhattans skyscrapers on the other hand can be acessed without that kind of interference cost – what makes plumber service there affordable.
So i think the living style on a baystead will be “urban and plugged into global trade streams”. What is exactly the way you live it in any city apartment. For me the idea that “everyting is expensive and complicated out at sea” is fundamently flawed, and based on the historic idea that a city is supplied by the sourrounding farms, this supply model is dead for over hundred years now. We need to understand how cities are supplied today in a global economy by ports and container terminals, how chineese noodles really reach our refrigerator, and why “out on the water” has become “priviledged” instead of “remote” in a world of global marine trade routes and container supply. The “boater supply model” is not relevant for a “piece of floating urban terrain plugged into container supply routes”.
Far from offering “rudimentary lifestyle” at “elevated remote location cost”, a baystead will offer “full service urban lifestyle at reduced cost” due to simplification of logistics (container), reduction of interference costs (traffic jam), and real estate space cost (squaremeters for housing development on the water cost less than in Manhattan in fact development space on the water is free in almost any coastal city).
A baystead does not really need the presence of secundary distributors like Sears, or Target, or Belk, or Home Depot, or Fastenall, or Staples, Food Giant, and their land based truck and warehousing infrastructure, it is plugged in the supply lines that supply those supplieres due to its location on the marine trade routes…May 8, 2014 at 7:31 am #23479
Ellmer, do you think that the ship carrying 1000 containers is going to stop by your seastead and unload one? You think you can use 1000 containers all at once? And how will that ship know if the crane is sitting on the shore at Manhatten or on your seastead? If you unload a container of carrots, what percentage of them will you be composting in 30 days because they have mostly rotted? Those are bulk containers, do you need a 40x8x8 ft cube of ramen on your seastead?
Lets see, you have a ship with containers on it, on land or seastead you need cranes to offload, you need warehouses to shelter the containers as you open them and separate where each parcel is distributed to, then you have many tons of piles to distribute, it’s the same on land as on seastead. Your huge downside is your seastead cannot possibly use a whole container of anything but diesel fuel, and they don’t usually ship fuel in boxes, so how do you expect to get container ships to stop by your place, instead of a deep port at Manhatten where they will sell contents to the entire usa and Canada?
I expect you’ll maybe order a container of this and that and some of the other stuff, and maybe a few things, and some cartons of do-dads, and then you’ll send your boat-truck (maybe it looks like a oil platform service boat or windmill service boat) once a month to shore.
To support your dream, can you figure how many shoes are in a container, and show how you need a 20ft or 40ft container of shoes? Same for everything else the seastead will need. If you get more of something in a container than you need, please calculate storage and floatation costs on the seastead, including refridgeration and transport costs. Show how many people will need to be on the seastead to make buying each item in container loads economical. For instance, a container of frozen beef from Peru: what’s the speed it must be eaten, by how many people, before storing it on the seastead is cost-stupid?May 8, 2014 at 8:01 am #23480
Yes global marine logistics handles that under the terms of “Transshipment operation of containers” and “load consolidation” and “load deconsolidation” – we don’t need to “invent the wheel” to supply baysteads, those problems are perfectly managed as we speak – this is the reason why things from China come fresh on your table in first place. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transshipment
There is a “perception error” in the idea that “nobody knows what is in all those containers on that ship” and you “need to order containerload because stuff comes in containers” that was 4 decades ago (partially) true. Today we track every item in every container at any time in real time around the world, and customers can follow the path of a single item by internet access to the sistem in real time every second. You can have any item in any quantity (consolidated) at any point along the trade route inmediatly and on demand – that is basicly what global container logistics and economics is about. It is one of that things that brought globalization – many people are not yet aware, that this is REALITY today, because it was not a reality a decade ago – but it is now. This is relevant for the way a baystead will operate – in fact one of the key business opportunities for a baystead is to operate as a Transshipment and load consolidation port. Panamax and Post-Panamax ships need deepwater ports (around 20m) many traditional ports are pushed out of comfort zone with handling that. A baystead floats in water deep enough (20m depth) to allow for Panamax ship access on all of its docks – this is a MAYOR business advantage compared to land based ports that need to dredge all the time. For a global key port like Cartagena 70% of all container operations are transshipment operations. This means the transport hub function is the core function. There is money to make in this sector…
Caribbean container operation intensity – Cartagena key port for global trade routes converging at the Panama Canal.
The map also shows why i would not put investor money into a baystead at Fonseca Bay at the Pacific side of the continent…May 8, 2014 at 8:32 am #23482
Ellmer, there’s 1000′s of container ships passing by the Aleutian Islands , and the islands of southern Alaska and western Canada, they don’t stop there. There’s 1000′s passing thru the Carribean for access to the Panama Canal, but few stop there.
Can you name an island with the population you expect on your seastead, and find out how many container ships stop there every month? Can you figure the cost for the dock facilities to handle such large ships and their cargo?
The Port of Oakland intermodal rail facility begun in the late 1980s cost USD $740,000,000. As of November 2013 it costs around $6000 to ship a 40-foot container from China to the US, i expect it will be cheaper for you to send the seastead truck to shore at your convenience, carrying passengers too. If you plan on using deep draft of a floating seastead as a benefit to containerized traffic, the ships needing over 40ft carry as much as 15,000 TEU, and i can’t imagine what you plan on doing with 15,000 containers on your seastead.May 8, 2014 at 8:38 am #23483
I cannot believe your map at http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b1/8d/31/b18d316aad9b5b5c40927227c25cd35d.jpg , it’s showing the south end of Florida as a major port, but that’s the Everglades national park, you can’t even drop anchor, drive, or boat in 100′s of square miles there. It’s so shallow in places, you can run aground before you ever see dry land. The Bahamas don’t list any large container ports, or shipping as economicly important.May 8, 2014 at 8:47 am #23484
To handle the 1500ft container ships, breaking just one down to smaller ships for local delivery, or breaking a load for redirection on two such ships, you’ll need to start with a 50 acre platform, 1500ft/450m on each side. Plus a breakwater around it. You are out of my price range again, and i still do not see the need for it.May 8, 2014 at 9:02 am #23485
If anybody wants to REALLY know how much it will cost to live on a seastead, just buy a ticket to Hawaii and live there for a month.May 8, 2014 at 9:14 am #23487
Marine Cable connections Caribben Broadband Internet – not only will a baystead in Cartagena be plugged directly into global container supply it will also plugg in broadband communication at low cost.
The high cost of Hawaii comes from being several thousand miles away from container shipment routes and submarine cable nets…so a baystead is not “similar to Hawaii” on contrary it is “the complete oposite” of Hawaii.
Venice is not “far from mediterranen sea trade”, it is the “centerpiece of mediterranean sea trade” we need to put things into the “right perspective”.May 8, 2014 at 9:25 am #23488
What makes urban living on a Baystead affordable is the mix of the following key factors.
1) low real estate squarmeter cost (space is free on the water other than in a city center)
2) direct plug into marine container trade (supply is cheap)
3) direct plug into world communication net (banking, internet, the cable is in the bay)
4) high score on the interference freedom scale (status of independent nation, flag of convenience, free trade zone, offshore banking, VENICE business model)
5) All the above factors attract investors.
6) A baystead is only a glimps on what is comming up in marine development in the next decade.
The key factor is that in a global trade ambient a baystead is “much better off” than a land city in the mayor drivers of development – new VENICE is overdue…May 8, 2014 at 9:31 am #23489
Well, than you should buy a ticket to Key West and live on the Sunset Key for one week. It is only 500 yards from shore. You’ll find out how “complete opposite” that is…May 8, 2014 at 9:52 am #23490
Ocean “distance from shore” is a “boater perspective” what matters is “distance from global container trade” and “distance from global communication networks”, as well as “distance from political and other interference / redtaping factors that drive general costs of doing anything (especially business) up” – this is what matters for economics in a modern urban and global ambient – sunset key is a overpriced pensionist vacation retirement spot…it has nothing to do with what we are talking about in baystead economics, urban baystead housing conditions, the general prices driven by the cost of supply lines, real estate space cost, and interference costs. The benefit of the VENICE model are not really in discussion by anybody – the model is working for centuries sucessfully – and a globalized sea trade world is only boosting it – a baystead can have all of the opportunities of VENICE and even add some more…(like the mobility card) to its portfolio. So to come back to the question how much would livng on a baystead cost? – for all the factors mentioned here – in short – signifficanty LESS than in the Land City you have in front over the bay.May 8, 2014 at 10:32 am #23491
Well, the example is relevant in terms of getting a realistic look at the “affordability” of baysteading. The fact of the matter is that living in Hawaii or on the Sunset Key are “bargains” compared to the price tag of Fonseca Baystead.
The Total Capital Cost of the Fonseca Baystead Platform (that’s the Platform ALONE) is $225,476,251. “Only” $978/sq.ft. to built the “foundation” alone,… When they will start building on that foundation, the final product will be at least $2000/sq.ft.
That being said, I am just simply wondering what kind of “new ideas for government” will be tested by “the next generation of pioneers” living on the Fonseca Baystead?May 8, 2014 at 10:53 am #23492
Ya $978/sq.ft real estate for a “jungle location far from everything” – that is where any investors is stopping reading a business plan…at least in the universe i live in – therefore i predict – fonseca will not happen…i think this is all discussion we need to have about that… Let’s have a discussion about themes that are worth discussing like putting a baystead housing cluster into the bay of a thriving coastal city on a key location of seatrade, in a emerging tiger nation, with attractive caribbean climate, dayly flight form US, Europe, Asia, high interference freedom scale score. Prime connection to everything – $ 80 sq.ft – investors keep reading…get your personal space ready and set up for key hand over within a year.
Housing style reference fiber concrete shell and honeycomb technology.
Bay reference: Hurricane free zone, the calm water area available for floating development is twice the size of the existing land city. Best port of the caribbean award for 6 years. The space behind Tierra Bomba is deepwater up to 30m so accessable to big ships but also calm like a fishpond, this is why Cartagena was first port of the Spanish overseas empire. The remoteness of the floating location is chooseable according to the preference of the floating home owners. Everything between “Coral island ambient” and “Thriving World City ambient” goes. Crossing the bay in speedboats is a 30 min ride. You go from remote caribbean to City center.
May 8, 2014 at 12:05 pm #23494
fonseca bay was also discussed here:
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