From Trash to Home
August 30, 2014 at 1:39 pm #23918
Ty, JW. You’re definitely invited (and you’ll get a discount)
Shreddy, maybe I spoke too soon (and too harsh) of the Frying Pan Tower,…It was because the last time I checked on it, the structure was missing one of the cross section support beams and overall, it was in need of help. I didn’t know that they did so much work around it. I do salute any seasteading oriented start up and I do wish them the best of luck!
Your support is welcomed, and as I said, I’ll keep you posted.
On a general note, I regard the “profit making” part of any seasteading start up as an opportunity for such venture to grow as self sufficient as possible and to built a community that will get enriched financially and spiritually while involved in making it happen. Just making money for the sake of just getting rich is not my motivation here. I do operate in a different dimension.
I am very seriously committed to start in the beginning of 2015.August 30, 2014 at 1:45 pm #23919
oh i dont expect anyone to get hella riche with a seasteading venture… i just think it will be a lot less embarrassing for the overall movement if Fox news doesnt have video of a bunch of ridiculous numbskulls and tweekers out there doing some stupid things. Hopefully seasteading people realize the importance of revenue to keep it afloat. Zutai keeps asking me to jump in to his project, and maybe i dont know enough but it doesnt look like a solid plan yet.
ALSO i think you meant the Diamond Shoals Tower when you said it was missing some bracing. There are 3 identical towers. The worst condition is Diamond Shoals which was bought for $20,000. The best condition is Chesapeake Tower which NOAA still owns/operates. Mr. Neal bought the FPT for about $80,000.August 30, 2014 at 4:13 pm #23920
Oh, I didn’t know there are several. I thought that we were talking about the Diamond Shoals one, and that about it.
Anyway, there are BIG, BIG MONEY to be made off seasteading. Worth $ millions just in fishing alone!August 30, 2014 at 4:17 pm #23921
Also some other operating seasteads I found today: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitbank_FortAugust 30, 2014 at 8:48 pm #23923
Looking ahead on Frying Pan Towers reservation calendar: In January they seem to be opening up the schedule to reservations every day for every room. Pricing is $250 per person per day. I got my fingers crossed hopefully this goes well for Mr. Neal! Believe me I will be just as happy and supportive for all you when your seasteads get under way!
So, Ocean, what design are we gonna start building in January? Is it the MMK? Tristead? Something else?August 30, 2014 at 10:17 pm #23924
The MMK name is no longer in use Similar project but with another “key” name (for better marketing purposes).
There will be no building right away but we’ll start up by purchasing and operating a houseboat according to plan in order to soft test the market. If positive results, we’ll add floats around the houseboat to form an atoll shape floating structure.August 31, 2014 at 7:21 am #23925
ellmer – http://yook3.comParticipant
The floating version of the solent forts (plate seastead, Ocean Sphere) might have transition capacity…fixed reef structues not.
The solent forts http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t43963853/plate-seastead-plate-floating-element-for-ocean-colonization/?page=1#comment-57705170 and frying pan are certainly models to look after when looking for a basic business for the first few squaremeters on the ocean. What concerns their value as actual condension point for a real seastead their value seem to be close to cero because they have a “transcendence problem” no room to grow. So doing it is not really of big value. The ultimate goal of seasteading is to get a foothold on the 99% of the planetary space that is liqid, not to get a foothold on a remote reef with a dozend squaremeter real estate. When you look at VENICE the turning point was that “rich mercants started to settle in Venice due to its strategic advantage as a spearhead to mediterranian trade” – i can hardly see those “reefstructuress” in such a role. Any dependence on a reef, a seamount, etc… is a serious road block. Even a baystead can only develop into a seastead if it uses the bay temporaryly only, and transcend to being a open sea capeable structure in the end.
Get a foothold in ocean colonization:
The Captain Nemo Lifestyle:
Why oceanic business is the next big thing to come:
In their current configuration those “reefstructures” are not more advanced on the way to seasteading than a barge, a artificial sandbank, a kelong, a oil rig, quicksilver, so certainly not the “milestones on the way to seasteading” that go a step beyond of what exists already after all. So i see this focus on those structures as if they where a big deal – a bit “out of target” they are not a big deal. They are obsolete technology mostly bad business, and stricly limited in expansion – in short a dead end without transition capacity. So why invest time money and enthusiasm in a obvious dead end ? Hard to sell this as “the dawn of a future megabusiness” to any investor.
In this context you might also want to check on more advanced concepts like Ekofisk…
August 31, 2014 at 7:48 am #23926
Ellmer you failed to provide a balanced quantification of the value of Solent Forts and Frying Pan Tower. These are not merely the “same old thing” as whats been done before. NO FUCKING SHIT, they dont accomplish every single element of an idealistic infinitely scalable seasteading system/platform. No one says they did! But you HAVE to give credit where it is due. You are not Fox News. You are welcome to your opinion but not your own facts! These projects are generating revenue and have a realistic plan to make a profit. Solent Forts are less than 2 miles offshore, so they have a more limited value in the realm of seasteading, but its better than a raftup in SF Bay, dont you think? And FPT is actually ouside the Contiguous Zone, its 34 miles offshore. I dont know what kind of contractual limitations are in effect but FPT could potentially demonstrate a lot of the theories discussed right here by TSI and us forum folk. If we’re gonna call for incremental progress, dont slather the parties who achieve it with all kinds of nonsense.August 31, 2014 at 8:06 am #23927
Theres an important distinction I need to make. Ellmer has done a lot of good for keeping us in check with existing engineering technology. But what Im trying to say is that we need an increased demand for seasteading-related SERVICES rather than products. Products that emanate from seasteading only serve to support the existing way of life on Earth. SERVICES, on the other hand, bring the culture to the sea. That is why Im excited about FPT and Solent Forts. They are using structures that were designed to military specifications (USCG uses military grade engineering, not commercial) and merely need to be refurbished. While refurbishment alone can be very expensive, it is still at least one order of magnitude less costly than developing and constructing brand-new structures. Therefore these businesses can make a profit and help further the cause of seasteading worldwide. These projects are also a step closer to “homesteading the high seas” when compared to existing cruise ships.August 31, 2014 at 1:40 pm #23929
As with anything else in life, the whole idea of “seasteading” is a matter of personal opinion. Therefore, different views of how to make it a reality.
I equate “seasteading” to “ocean habitation” and I define ocean habitation as:
““The process of developing highly self-sufficient and environmentally conscious human habitats built as mobile artificial floating islands that will navigate the world’s oceans as permanent independent oceanic territories.”
One of the key word here is MOBILE. The global economy is mainly based on exploiting natural resources with “satellite” related service industries (like it or not, such is the nature of the beast). So, seasteading will have to tap into the ocean resources and related services in order to make ends meet. Therefore, mobility is paramount in order to explore, locate, extract and repeat the process in different locations around the worlds oceans.
Ekofisk is there because oil is there. When oil will dry up, Ekofisk will have scrap metal value since a scenario along the Frying Pan Tower line of business is highly unlikely due to its location in the middle of the North Sea.
What’s the “transition” here? From oil rig to rust bucket?
Also a matter of opinion and based on how the term “seasteading” is defined is the process of “getting there”.
If “The ultimate goal of seasteading is to get a foothold on the 99% of the planetary space that is liquid” as “the dawn of a future mega-business”, basically “ocean colonization” now, than corporate owned seems inevitable. If “ocean habitation”, than private small businesses owned seems more likely.
In this world there is Wall Mart and “Joe’s Retail”. They coexist by both exploiting each other shortcomings and both bark at each other for a chunk of the bone.
Only time will tell which one will get to the “seasteading bone” first.August 31, 2014 at 3:01 pm #23931
Seasteading is presented by Oceanopolis as a hub and spoke with natural resource extraction being the hub, and services being the spokes. This is not the best paradigm to view seasteading. Extraction and basic manipulation of raw resources is continuing on a path of robotics and automation. The stakeholders need ever fewer man-hours per unit of production and this trend is due to continue in the next few decades. There needs to be a cultural sea change turning a more appealing eye toward creative and service talents emanating from the people who have an outside perspective due to their healthier and more fruitful, satisfying lifestyle offshore. When a movie star, singer, succesful business-person or other influential celebrity decides to live more than 12 miles offshore, it will be worth more than 10,000 high-paid low class rig operators in value toward promoting the social acceptance of permanent offshore inhabitance.August 31, 2014 at 7:45 pm #23933
You lost me, man,…been drinking margaritas all day. What’s your excuse?
So, you are saying that the Kardashians are worth more than the workers who are making seasteading happening toward “promoting the social acceptance of permanent offshore inhabitance”? Really??
The “movie star, singer, succesful business-person or other influential celebrity” will have a better understanding of seasteading “due to their healthier and more fruitful, satisfying lifestyles”? Really?? All those fucked up junkies are seasteading role models now??
What makes 10,000 high paid “rig operators” low class? Are 10,000 high paid lawyers, managers, engineers, etc. “low class” too or a “better” class?
I have no clue what you’re talking about, dude.August 31, 2014 at 7:55 pm #23934
HAHAHA! Im glad that your mad, because it really is a *ucked up world that we live in. But YES if the Kardashians bought and settled into a seastead it would be seen much more favorably by the media and popular culture than a bunch of “hicks” who strap together some concrete cubes. Thats how society works brothaa! I didnt say the celebrity will have a better understanding of the engineering. Oh hell no, of course not! But that wont matter because they’ll pay tons of money to make sure it just works. Let me ask you something: Who physically builds iPhones? Chinese, right? Who buys iPhones? Rich Americans! I dont make the rules, buddy I just play the game!! And I play to WIN!August 31, 2014 at 9:02 pm #23935
I don’t “iPhone” since me no “Rich American” Android,…with the 99%.
Stop playing, player! The game is rigged. No can win.
MAKE YOUR OWN RULESSeptember 1, 2014 at 6:52 am #23937
Oceanopolis, I like your thinking and it is clear you are working hard on this:
“The process of developing highly self-sufficient and environmentally conscious human habitats built as mobile artificial floating islands that will navigate the world’s oceans as permanent independent oceanic territories.”
That’s a great vision statement. You are right. It is important to make your own rules, and not get tugged down by anyone’s viewpoint. After all, it’s your vision that’s on the line. Where would Apple be if Jobs got tugged down? Where would Facebook be if Zuckerberg didn’t make a dozen sharp decisions in the early days. Zuckerberg didn’t design his system for Kim Kardashian, and Kim Kardashian didn’t change that vision when she participated in Facebook.
What is the core of a solid long-range vison? How do visions survive the growth of a business or idea? Probably ethics and purpose. Purpose comes from defining who is served, how are they served and why are they served. Ethics involves just not getting caught in lying, cheating and stealing that brings so many companies down. Stealing is easy to see and define. But lying through omission is common. Also common is a leader not acting as they expect other people to act. Oh, and don’t kick the dog while being filmed by the elevator camera.
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