From Trash to Home
August 25, 2014 at 1:22 pm #23852
May be a little more explanation about the spherical structure:
…most likely made of ferro-cement
…modular building, where parts could be made on land and assembled in water
…the floating could be adjusted back and forth to be partially submerged and to completely
submerged to depth 2-3 times the height of the waves
…it would be anchored to the sea floor or anchored with sea-anchors in deep water
…some engines with propellers would be necessary to hold positionAugust 25, 2014 at 1:51 pm #23853
Spark, i agree, before we enter in lengthy discussion about if we do or do not need/want a king in our castle we should probably have deep thoughts about the more basic questions. Like space the open sea is an ambient where a naked human exposed to the environment dies within minutes. So the baseline question is how do we get out a couple of cubic meter living space that enable humans to survive the ambient. The logical answer (when it comes to the high seas) is not platforms and rafts (who can only survive “benign ocean conditions”) but shells (with overwash cpacity in Draupner events). What comes to mind as the “basic unit” is a rescue pod. See dutch rescue pod hotel.
Can be submerged like the james bond version:
And have a tendon anchor.
Once you enclose the living space in a bubble – sea conditions become irrelevant.
Read more about floating shells type rescue pod, surface floatiing and submerged.
A single room sized pod would be kind of spartanic but you can cluster room sized pods to assemblies like this one:
At land or at sea this is desaster proof housing on a very comfortable level.
Base unit rescue pod.
This leads to the bubble living space concept:
Or to the ocean sphere habitat concept:
Or a more mobile version the Captain Nemo float out:
In the Rio Juntas project (a dome housing project in Ecuador http://www.riojuntas.com/ where we played a advisor role) we explored the building of domes of 6m diameter together with Michael Edwards. Those domes have a room and space feeling of a big apartment. So i see a 6m sphere as a comfortable open ocean equivalent of a family house.
The Ben Franklin project places the necessary space for a floating bubble to host 4 people for a full month of complete insulation from the rest of the world at 130 cubic meters of space.
The modularity of the concept would consist in building a “bubble cluster” one bubble at a time.August 25, 2014 at 2:51 pm #23854
OK, let’s assume that some people would agree to live in a bubble for the rest of their life. What’s next?August 25, 2014 at 3:22 pm #23855
Ocean i don’t see why a bubble living space is any more “choosing to live in bubble for the rest of your life” as buying an apartment is “choosing to live in a box for the rest of your life”. You are supposed to have a life outside your apartment. The grade of insulation is a choice not a obligation of the floating lifestyle. On contrary when you choose a apartment you choose a neighborhood and you can not move your apartment away – in a floating shell you can change position as frequently as you want. My first choice would be a location here, halfway between this beach (Tierrabomba) and the City center (Cartagena Skyscrapper line on the horizon) you are looking over the protected waters of the bay.
3 minutes from a pristine caribbean beach and 3 minutes from the city center of Cartagena. My car is this:
Allowing me a fast traffic free access to all important points of the City (Cartagena was built for water access 300 years ago – not for cars) i can still work in town my current access time to the City center is 40min trough morning traffic – this is 10 times faster. I can have a very urban lifestyle if i want it deploying it out of my ocean sphere instead out of my city apartment.
It is even better – industries like tourism, ship repair, will use the bay in the margin of the Cartagena Marine Business Cluster, so i can work on the bay instead in the city…and i can have an oceanpod (30m depth) to grow my fish in the backyard just like chicken on a farm. And best thing i can have a flag of convenience therefore be counted as a piece of territorry of the flag nation so none of the local regulation apply to my case (except ambient – so get a septic tank). Conveniently i am european citicen and colombian citicen and have both passports.
Get a foothold in ocean colonization:
The Captain Nemo Lifestyle:
Why oceanic business is the next big thing to come:
Ocean sphere fish farming:
Ocean colonization gallery:August 25, 2014 at 3:46 pm #23856
Ocean; I like idea of “…what’s next?”
Elmer; I like the dutch pod hotel. Specially the one with the woman in it.
cube or sphere, I like th outdoors. Though I like comfort too, like bathroom,
washing machine and dryer and other stuff. I like sailing and scuba diving and
swimming (no sharks) kayaking … etc… So I would come out of the sphere
just like I get out of the cube too.August 25, 2014 at 3:57 pm #23857
Will, there was no pun intended with “living in a bubble”.
So, you basically want to build floating real estate moored in the vicinity of that island?August 25, 2014 at 7:12 pm #23859
I really like this thread. Zutai’s plan clearly shows advanced thought and ambition. While I could nitpick here and there, the overall concept is visionary.
I really like Zutai’s thoughts on government. It is refreshing to see a vision laid out. Plato’s republic says much about the philospher king, and the sensibility of such a government. I often see western civilization caught between the sensibility of Plato that one person could handle all so no one has to think, or Aristotle who suggests that everyone should have equal say in government by educating and enlightening themselves. We see this dialog in the American and French revolutions; the Enlightenment and Counter-Enlightenment, Federalist and Counter Federalist, Conservative and Liberal movements. Would you rather have your neighbors democratically decide what your rights are, or have a ruler who decides what your rights are?
For me, the city first is the place to start. Communities never turn out the way people plan. Look at Washington DC, a planned capital, and Philadelphia the city of brotherly love. For me, the real meat is the middle decisions. When someone makes a quick compromise to solve an immediate problem, and the solution becomes an encrusted gem or carbuncle of a problem for future generations. Republic, Utopia, Ecotopia, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Atlas Shrugged, Animal Farm, 1984, F451, Hunger Games and other fictional communities can provide some guidance for thinking.
How a floating city cedes ownership to the first 100 people, will be reflected 2 generation later for all 10 million residents. Should the original residents be owners of individual units, or time-share owners of a shared city, or renters from an overall authority? Should food growing resources be individual or shared? Should food eating resources be individual or shared? What about injured people, hospitals, births and alcoholics? How does this all play with natural law, personal responsibility,government, authority and freedom?
Good stuff!August 25, 2014 at 9:28 pm #23860
So,…should we understand that you want to live on a kingstead too?August 25, 2014 at 10:38 pm #23861
I liked the idea referring to the for-mentioned “king” as “captain”. Though I have used the term “king”, the old meaning of the word, would not be able to continue alongside the role as I have stated. Captain is a better term, though the idea would be for smaller structures than the standard sea-steads envisioned for the future.
Ocean, one of the best things about sea-steading, even as someone not part of the government, is that if you don’t like it, the neighboring sea-stead, may be more to your liking. It is easy to move.
JW, I welcome you aid in planning, and hope that even if my plans remain as mere plans, that they aid another in his endeavors. Even mere talk here, can become great things for someone else. That is the nature of the free exchange of information.August 26, 2014 at 2:40 am #23862
I am aware of the fact that MAYBE, some day, in a distant future (when I’ll be dead) there will be a choice of seasteads to pick from. But that’s of no importance to me now. I deal with day to day realities, man.
And one such reality is that soon, in the very close future (when preferably alive) I will invest some of my money into a seasteading “something”. That doesn’t mean that I will build a seastead and invite people over, it doesn’t work like that.
It involves forming a community of “like minded individuals” who will in fact invest in themselves by build a seastead together. My view is that without seasteaders, how can you have a seastead? Without having “like minded individuals”, how can you have seasteaders? Without outlining AT LEAST a basic set of political and socio-economic guidelines, how can you determine the “like minded individuals” from otherwise?
The reason for the above rational is that the first seastead will most likely have under 30-40 people aboard. If you’ll have 5 communists, 5 fascists, 5 monarchists, 5 libertarians, 5 totalitarians, 5 democrats, 5 republicans, etc. aboard a seastead, to start with, they will kill each other in the first 10 min.
What’s the point of the whole effort if it will end up with such a fuck up?August 26, 2014 at 6:57 am #23863
I think the question of “what political sistem” should a seastead have is just as wrong, as the medival scolastic asking for “where is the end of the world” the world is a sphere there is no end, and seasteading is a quest for interference freedom or as Peter Thiel puts it “a way to escape politics in all its forms” it is not about “choosing a specific set of politics” it is about going beyond politics and division. The only rule necessary is “your freedom ends where the freedom of your neighbor begins” the definition of that borders is done by direct vote on blockchain on a dayly base by the citicens. That is it. http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t57838040/blockchain-technology/
Politics was born as a solution to the “problem of scale” in a oversized country state where “direct vote on the forum” was not possible anymore (like originally in Athens). Politics is obsolete now – there are better solutions – the problem of scale does not exist anymore. To read more about oceanic freedom the quest for freedom on the frontiers and the root causes that drive ocean colonization …
Get a foothold in ocean colonization:
The Captain Nemo Lifestyle:
Why oceanic business is the next big thing to come:
Ocean sphere fish farming:
Ocean colonization gallery:
One of the base issues that mankind is stuck with, is that politics does not solve things and does mostly just create interference, divisions, and politicians that seek their own interest.
The only thing that changes the way we live is technology.
One of the basic theorems of enlightenment is that technology can uplift all humanity.
Internet brings in the second wave of enlightenment where the scale problem disappears and democratic processes as invented in ancient greece for a city state can now be implemented on global scale.
Read more about enlightenment and industrial revolution.
Seasteading was postulated as a path to live this without changing the sistem on land. It is supposed that when land nations see the shining example of seabased communities living a VENICE style they will follow.
More about how to implement a seabased society historic lessions from VENICE…
Ocean, you possibly want to rethink your idea that seasteading and oceanic freedom is something that will come for future generations – i strongly disagree. There are already people and companies living and doing business on floating platforms with a much greater degree of freedom than it would be possible on Land see the examples of Nkossa, Eclipse, SabMiller, the Cartagena Marine Cluster, and many more to come…August 26, 2014 at 9:20 am #23866
I agree with Ocean. I disagree with Elmer.August 26, 2014 at 10:49 am #23867
To start with, “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Here are the facts:
I never said that technology IS NOT the driving force of how we live.
I never said that seasteading is “something that will come for future generations”. All I said was “I am aware of the fact that MAYBE, some day, in a distant future (when I’ll be dead) there will be a choice of seasteads to pick from.”
If Peter Thiel thinks that seasteading is “a way to escape politics in all its forms” he should build a seastead according to his vision. He definitely can afford to do so.
I am not here to impose on anybody’s opinion, but to present the facts of how I will do it. And I quote: “It involves forming a community of “like minded individuals” who will in fact invest in themselves by build a seastead together. My view is that without seasteaders, how can you have a seastead? Without having “like minded individuals”, how can you have seasteaders? Without outlining AT LEAST a basic set of political and socio-economic guidelines, how can you determine the “like minded individuals” from otherwise?” Also the fact that: “To me, a direct democracy system (referendum based) would be the best choice….Personally, I won’t participate in any seasteading project that’s not based on (or at least similar in ideology) to the above principles.”
If anybody believes the same, they are welcomed to the conversation and we can join forces. If not, they can go seasteading the way they want and I wish them the best of luck.August 26, 2014 at 10:56 am #23868
I look at both Ocean and Elmer, seeing the scales between them.
Ocean wants to living in the smaller form, where you guys pretty much float together, without it being a solid mass. which is fine.
Elmer is looking at larger systems that are already taking shape. Which must be looked at, to learn how to manage our own.
I am looking at starting with the smaller scale, and working up to the larger scale. With which, I can look into having an international presence, to help be a microphone for the sea-steading community on the whole.
I hope that all of us can work tighter, for our mutual goals. As such, we will all be able to be stronger in the end.August 26, 2014 at 3:11 pm #23869
My opinion is to buld a geodesic spere. The base units would be triangles made of
rigid polyurethane foam covered with ferro cement and some steel pipes inside the foam.
The reinforcing pipes would form the core of the geodesic dome.
Each triagle would be bouyant enough to float, in case the dome falls apart it would not sink.
Or not all of it would sink.
The dome would be partially above the water, about 20%. The rest of the dome would be flooded.
The under water part of the dome could be used for farming fish, nor else.
The above the water part would be possible to seel water tight in case the need to submerge the
Structural triagle part of the dome, spere could be prefabricated on land and assembled in water.
Different sizes of domes could be built. I would start with a small one.
The fish farm square, that was built in Hawaii is , I guess 27 feet diameter.
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