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From Trash to Home

Home Forums Community Active Seasteading Projects From Trash to Home

This topic contains 225 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of shredder7753 shredder7753 7 hours, 24 minutes ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 226 total)
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  • #23756
    Profile photo of Zutai Abunai
    Zutai Abunai
    Member

    I have planned out a project that will have many aspects that most would find of use to the planet as a whole, and the individuals as well. Though the acquisition of the plastic already in the oceans, it is possible to fill nets, that when tethered together, they can form a rather buoyant raft. With many of these rafts, it is possible to build an island, large enough to house a village or town, as it grows large enough for a city.

    The plan as it stands, is to use dredge pumps to pump water into nets, in the most concentrated areas of the pacific gyre, to gather up enough plastic, to sausage out the nets. With the plastics still in the water, they will continue to absorb the hydrophobic chemicals, and remove them from the ecosystem, for the most part. As we gather more and more plastic into these nets, tying them together, they would build a raft that in turn, will let us build on. The plastics are removed from the oceans, and we have a system to build on top of. Many people will come to aid, merely to help get the plastics out of the ecosystem, due to it’s damage to the wildlife. Making this part of the project, one that should have the most aid.

    Once the raft is large enough, farms should be the first things we start, due to the roots reaching down into the plastic, to make it more stable. With the farms shielding the plastics from the sun, while binding them in a root cluster, we will have little worry for the lifespan of the raft. We will have to look into using sea weeds and the like, for the edges of the raft though. Something that will not die off fast, and grow fast, as we force the middle areas into shade, while the edges grow outward. With these root system, salt water should be less of an issue, when looking at the saltwater contamination of the crops. Though we should still look into salt tolerant plants, for the early farms.

    Once the farms have made the base more stable, we can look into the types of buildings we want to place on the raft. Placing a concrete base on the soil/plastic, will help it to stay firm, as the raft shifts in the waves, but it would have to be self stable. We would need to make it so it does not crack of crumble, as it’s base shifts. Making the concrete thicker, can help with this, while keeping the buildings farther apart, would help them to be able to shift with the shape of the raft. Early builders would be best suited for living quarters and farm houses. Large buildings will not come in till the raft can be stabilized. Roads may be one of the hardest things we try to build on this shifting surface. We may look into using something other than concrete or asphalt, due to the early traffic being by foot anyway.

    As the raft grows, and it’s ports becomes busy with trade, the economy of the town/city will come into it’s own. At this time, we would look into finding a place to settle down, and way anchor. Sending a tube down into the seafloor, and turning it into an elevator shaft, will give us the ability to mine the bedrock of the ocean. With this, there will be a lot of junk rock that we cant use. This junk rock, will be used to build up under the raft, till it is able to make the raft, into a true island. As the island takes shape, larger buildings will be able to take shape. Giving us the ability to build factories that are able to process resources, and send off products to the docks for trade. While at the same time, the mines will give us a new place to build. Sending most of our industrial buildings underground, will give us a way to channel the exhaust from all of them, into an algae filtration system. Taking in the noxious fumes, and giving us fresh air, to let into our city.

    The government system as it is currently planned, with be a monarchy, with a council having most of the power. The king would be able to step in and act as an enforcer in times when the council is acting against the best interests of the people, but should not make a habit of it, when not needed. Having a council per topic, would make it so each resource is used in the best way. Defense, offense, schools, farms, mines, and trade, will be the main council types, so as to best run the country. With this, there should be less struggle with the budget, and how it is used, when it comes time to build a military, vs. build a school. Both systems will have options to budget themselves, and find ways to make money independently.

    There is also plans for an economic system, that strives to use the best of socialism, and capitalism to make the best possible system. With no basic bills like rent, net, electric, and food, the money they do bring home from their jobs, will be all for play. With a lack of minimum wage, and a lack of basic bills, you will be able to find the work you want, over the work you need. With this system, there will be little to no poverty in the country. Outsiders will have to pay a major tax, that brings things up to a “normal” outside price though. This economic system, will have to be gone over in greater detail though.

    As the island grows, it will become clear that we will have many kinds of people, struggling to live side by side. There will come a point, when we must build more islands, using our economic powers. With such, we will be able to use the knowledge we have gained, to build the new islands faster, stronger, and longer lasting, then the first one. Having the power to build a network of islands with their own governing system, will give us the ability to customize more so, to each personality type. There will come an island for those who are set in their old ways, and those who are striving for the new. There will come those who are strict on their laws, and those who build a sea Vegas. With each one prospering in their own ways, the group, will prosper in total.

    Some of these ideas may seem lofty, but with each step taken in small amounts, we will have those lofty goals. I ask for any who are willing to make those small steps with me, to join in on the project. I may not be aiming for those big fancy buildings like others, but I am aiming for a new future. I ask that you help me find that future, and help it to become a better one.

    #23757
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    It will $ billions in equipment, personnel and labor to pump out the GPGP,…

    #23758
    Profile photo of Zutai Abunai
    Zutai Abunai
    Member

    Yes. You are right. But, this is not about just cleaning it up. This is about using what is there, to build from. Turning the refuse, into a resource. As the island grows, it will pick up more and more of the plastic, but it may never pick it all up. The plastic levels will drop, but may never go away. Is making them drop, not worth trying?

    #23759

    The plastic patch in the gyre is a media hype it is not really there. So you can not build with it. The real concentration is about 1 confetti sized plastic piece per olympic swimming pool of water. So nothing you could harvest, concentrate, manipulate on large scale making any economic sense in no feasible setup…

    #23760
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Yeap

    #23761
    Profile photo of Zutai Abunai
    Zutai Abunai
    Member

    Then what would you use to build the base of the raft? Plastic bottles, like that guy in Mexico? Is there another ready source of floating material with similar traits as the plastic I thought would make a good resource? The issue as things stand with your information, is what to build the raft out of.

    #23762
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    The general consensus is that seasteads should be built of concrete.

    #23763
    Profile photo of Zutai Abunai
    Zutai Abunai
    Member

    When looking at a permanent system, i can see why. But, the system I am looking for, is one that will be buried by the island to take form under it. Wat would be a good material to use as the temporary medium, to be buried later?

    #23765
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    So, you are talking about a real island (from the seabed up), not a floating one?

    #23766
    Profile photo of Zutai Abunai
    Zutai Abunai
    Member

    I am talking about building a real island, under a floating one. But the floating one is meant to be made out of a soft readily floating material that floats on it’s own, and cheap if not free. Plastics would have made a good base, but there seems to be too few of them in the gyre.

    The raft should be strong enough to live on for a few years, but not matter much as it is buried. The balance between these becomes the new issue.

    #23767
    Profile photo of spark
    spark
    Participant

    About a year ago I looked around Midway Island with google maps and google earth.
    I saw some big piles of plastic garbage in bags and the bags piled up.
    I just looked around lately, and I cannot find them yet.
    A year ago I wondered about what are those, how did those get there, and what is
    going to happen to those piles of garbage.
    I am not sure. May be you can use google maps too.
    Well, I thought I would mention it as information.

    #23768
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Zutai

    Buying a real island would be much cheaper than building one.

    http://www.privateislandsonline.com/

    Spark

    The area from Midway Atoll all the way up to Kure Atoll is where the Pacific Gyre deposits most of its plastic debris on the beaches of several atolls in between those two. Once in a while the NOAA cleans those atolls beaches. You could have seen those pile ups,….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1dblSip6RY

    36 TONS OF GARBAGE IN 19 DAYS!!! From only one small area…

    #23769

    Why remote location seasteading does not work…

    Guys, a island in the middle of nowhere without a economy to plug in, without attractions to pull business is just pointless no matter if it is artificial or natural you never will get investment to build anything for a “mid pacific location” most you can get is a “polinesian lifstyle” based on local fishing and yuca gardenery that is it. The polinesians do “island steading in the mid pacific” for thousands of years – what is the point to repeat this experiment. It is basicly the same like the Tanka the Sea Gypsies, the floating Neutrinos, Richi Sowa, etc. etc.. what matters is the TRANSITION CAPACITY of a floating project. http://www.seasteading.org/forum-list/topic/big-things-have-small-beginnings-transition-capabilty-key-feature/
    What you need to get is a ongoing development dynamics like in the historical model of VENICE. http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56710025/venice-italy-how-to-do-instructions-for-seasteading-from-his/
    What diferenciates this model from “Tanka floating stagnation models” http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t58002383/big-things-have-small-beginnings-transition-capability-key-f/?page=1#comment-58002451 is its LOCATION in a interference free space on important seatrade routes brokering power interests around it successfully plugging into trade and controling it.
    Mid ocean locations are not feasible for a startup. Baystead comes first. You need to create economic dynamics to grow a floating city. Remote locations are only feasible when you already have a business dynamics so big that the city becomes a business center of its own. (Size of Las Vegas)
    Picture a feasible seasteading setup with business dynamics something like in the image above, a baystead near a emerging shoreside city running out of development space, projecting to the watersurface in the sense of a “marine cluster development”.

    #23770
    Profile photo of Zutai Abunai
    Zutai Abunai
    Member

    Along that angle, it would be possible to move a floating structure like the raft i have planned, so as it can start in a bay area, and head out to sea later on. Using the bay to help it grow in size and economic strength, it would be able to move where it wishes, after a time. Now to find a bay that is developing in the desired ways, so as to use that, to fuel the raft’s growth.

    Due to the low end start up that I am aiming for, San Fransisco may be my best bet. Tap into the green mindset of many of the people there, and use them to gather the resources to build the raft. Plastics would still be of use, due to the chemicals they pick up out of the waters, and the spaces between them, would make a good home for microbes and root systems.

    A farming economics system is the goal fir the early growth of the island anyway, and using that same model, i can use many of the green minded people of San Fransisco, to help it grow.

    I thank you for this aid.

    #23771


    you might start with something like this – a cluster of floating structures – type marina – develop it to something like this.
    a floating district of a existing land city. And finally develop it further to this.

    A oceanic floating city. At any moment of the development you need to be in business with the boating sector, the tourism sector, the ship seatransport sector, etc…to earn money to finance the next development step of your floating city. The economic heart of the development needs to start beating with the first floating walkway (rent marina boxes to boaters, sell beer and tackle) and keep beating stronger every time you take a development step.
    You need the right mix of “interference freedom” and “emerging economy” to make it happen – i would see San Francisco as a “highly redtape cluttered place” in a “sclerotic coding nation” rather than a ideal place to do such a thing. http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56351996/business-and-third-party-interference-freedom/
    But the only really good way to get a clear picture about that is to put a couple of floating squaremeters out there and see what happens in a pilot project setup. For the Cartagena Marine Cluster ( http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t46019347/small-honeycomb-floating-concrete-structures-in-cartagena/ )
    i have already done half a dozend pilot projects – and aquired a quite good understanding how to tackle the matter on my location. I also got a widespread investor interest. So i asume you have to do the same at your location…

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