Floating City Project report
April 25, 2014 at 6:39 pm #23386
Well, i read it. Along with the usual misspellings (“platfrom”, etc) it validated a few things i have been saying, but then it ignored a lot too. When blithely discussing 3-story tall buildings on a cassion tall enough to tolerate 10ft waves, it ignored wind pressure. Among the questions it asked in it’s survey, it didn’t ask “how will you support yourself after you move from Europe or USA to the Honduras?”. While it included battery costs in the diesel powerplant, it didn’t in the photovoltaic plant (but in any case you will require some diesel power anyhow). They calmly mentioned “eutrophication” as if that doesn’t mean “stinks of dead decaying stuff”. And it’s assumed everyone will meet up at the 0.62 acre (50m/164ft square) floating block of concrete and live happily ever after, while bringing great wealth and prestige to Honduras. I suspect what will bring more wealth is China’s planned Nicaraguan canal project which will put supertankers by the 100’s into Fonseca Bay. That’s going to make waves, in more ways than one. It’s sure as heck going to drive up the cost of electricity and concrete. Honduras has plans (not solid plans yet) to put a hydropower plant on one of the rivers into Fonseca.
Granted, there’s some good reasons to have it built and run out of that location in Honduras: it is less likely to be under the thumb of the usa. Umm,,, ok, what other good reasons are there?April 25, 2014 at 10:46 pm #23387
In my opinion, the main reason that Gulf of Fonseca is a good location is because it is a well protected hurricane hole.
(n.) A well protected anchorage used by sailors for refuge during heavy weather. shelter.April 26, 2014 at 7:11 am #23388
Randy, a great report, that does a good job to write up a vision and a first step to a business plan to turn that vision into a posible reality. I liked especially the cost per squaremeter analysis as the angle point of a venture that is “real estate driven” in its basic nature. I also liked the model of the “host country presentation letter”.
Kat, we are probably not doing a “good service” to the ocean colonization movement by overly “shredder down” anybody who comes up with a way to do things and focus only on the weak points.
Basicly in any project there are strong points and weak points. Project success depends much on forming motivated teams by enforcing the strong points further and eliminating the weak points without a lot of drama on the way.
The strongest point of the Seasteading Institute has always been to be noticed by media and having backers like Peter Thiel, that see ocean colonization as a way to deal with the “interference and red taping problems” they are facing in their business ventures.
Any report that comes out needs to be understood therefore as a “media signal” in the first place.
I understand that you are looking for “direct instructions for single handed live aboard solutions on extreme low budget” in first place, so it is only natural that you will feel frustrated by reports that do “not attend your segment” just try to see it that way, that the seasteading institute is driven by a different segment attending to a different segment and “spilling frustration over the forums” does not help your cause and their cause either.
Part of the vision we all share is that there are many ways, that we are testing a lot of things, that the ocean will allow individual freedom and accomodation of interests without “conflicting interference”.
We should probably start with the forums creating that space of doing things different by letting ways grow and keep the good stuff at the end. We also will be better off as community by having words of support instead of harsh criticism all the time…April 26, 2014 at 11:35 am #23389
Ellmer, i am not looking for “direct instructions for single handed live aboard solutions on extreme low budget”. This is the wrong place to do that.
But if TSI cannot put out a publication with correct spelling, and they overlook some basic issues, well, the bigger they fail, the bigger the pushback will be against seasteading. In small towns all over the usa, town councils and law enforcement decides which laws to enforce (and who to keep harrassing), my point being that at a minimum those strangers who will be living on the seastead should be getting to know each other on a tiny plot of ground where they can fudge the rules of law before they move onto the concrete in Fonseca Bay where they set their own rules. Many intentional communities on land have failed, i don’t see this report as much different than any other such place, except it’s very small and floating. But this, like the Chinese shipping canal into Fonsceca, wasn’t addressed.
I don’t want them to fail because they missed something.April 26, 2014 at 12:42 pm #23390
I finally found the name of the boat type the TSI Fonseca project reminded me of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coracle
TSI seems to have a firm grip on 5000 year old technology. While you are wrong about why i am here, i think you are right that it’s not the place for me.April 26, 2014 at 1:13 pm #23391
I would like if the threads could have a general culture of being supportive…April 26, 2014 at 2:45 pm #23393
Ellmer, a few months ago we were discussing seasteading incubator, where new ideas could be built and tried, for cheap, and evolved, and fast-tracked, and tested, proven, lived on. The Fonseca project is nothing new, it has all the same old known problems of the coracle (or kettle boat). It doesn’t solve any seasteading issues, for all intents and money spent, it’s practically land-locked, for calm waters only. It isn’t a step toward a big city on the ocean, and it’s only for rich people, which excludes me. They talked of $billion breakwaters if this barge was towed out to sea, they talked of $2million towing fees. As far as seasteading in general goes, i fear this will quietly flop, get sold for $nothing (like many before it), be a tax writeoff, and be someone else’s headache until it’s towed out and sunk, or beached and filled with dirt. Like the ClubStead, it may already have been given up on, no one bothered to run a free spellchecker program on the report before it was published. I don’t know, i don’t wish them bad luck, i know the barge can be built, it’s not new technology, all this has been done in various flavors before. I don’t see it benefiting you, me, or Ocean, but if it fails it almost certainly will affect us by new laws being made against seasteading. Keep in mind the fuss about the Google barges (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_barges), and other yacht parkings in the ICW over the years. I am not seeing a net gain for the money and effort spent.April 26, 2014 at 7:22 pm #23398
I see the Floating City Project as a result of a learning process that is underway. In general the institute has done a great job to move the idea of ocean colonization forward and i do not see a scenario where ocean colonization will become harder for anybody because TSI is messing something up. From a evolutionary standpoint i would not even expect that the next step is more than one small step away from things that have been there already this is exactly what you are looking for in a EVOLUTION scenario. I see every line of text published a net gain for ocean colonization. Every flop is a important lession what to avoid – just let’s have mutual support and some fun trying things out.April 27, 2014 at 5:45 pm #23399
It’s to early in the project to criticize or judge. It does look “expensive” because of its size and I have’t seen anything in the project saying “RICH MEN ONLY”. Also, keep in mind that TSI is not talking about building The MMK there…:)
I also think there is a lot in this project that will benefit the “small guy”, mostly in the area of countless support business that need to be operated on and around the future “Fonseca Seastead” (shall we say FS?). And my experience tells me that they will not micro-manage but rather outsource those business opportunities.
As for what kind of sociopolitical environment they’ll create on FS we’ll have to wait and see. If you (or me, or other) will like it, I’m sure there will be a way to get there and participate if we choose to do so.
If not, than just forget about it.
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