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deep sea seasteading VENT BASE ALPHA

Home Forums Archive Structure Designs deep sea seasteading VENT BASE ALPHA

This topic contains 22 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of oobi oobi 3 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #1117

    I was wondering if Phil Nuytten´s Vision of a advanced deepsea base mining the resources of a submarine volcano vent – called VENT BASE ALPHA can be a option for seasteading -

    I have research that indicates that such a base could be made out of concrete spheres.

    Anybody interested in discussing that?

    Dive expert envisions Mars-like colony off coast of B.C.

    By Karen Dyer – Business Edge
    Published: 02/05/2004 – Vol. 1, No. 3

    Underwater technology guru Phil Nuytten likes to think big – and deep.

    When one of Canada´s premier diving pioneers and inventors looks to the future of his industry, he talks knowledgeably about deep sea diving and submersibles, but it is his newest project that really makes his eyes gleam.

    “I have a plan for an underwater Mars-like colony. It will essentially be powered by the heat vents on the ocean floor and will house people to work on an undersea mining operation out of the heat vents. I´ve spent the last couple of years talking to people all around the world about this concept, and I´m ready to see it happen. I call it Vent Base Alpha.”

    Talking with Nuytten is like speaking to Jules Verne, with a difference. While Verne created his futuristic worlds with words, Nuytten shapes his from high-tech plastic and metals. And unlike Verne´s, most of Nuytten´s dreams have actually come to pass.

    The underwater technology world is a closely-knit community and Nuytten is a major player in Canada and around the globe. He is the founder and CEO of Nuytco Research Ltd. and Can-Dive Construction Ltd. Oceaneering International Inc., a company he helped found in the 1960s that is currently trading just short of a billion dollars per year on the NASDAQ.

    Another one of Nuytten´s companies, Hollywood Underwater Ltd., has been involved in the production of more than 130 movies, including a couple that have his own inventions as the starring characters. The Abyss, Titanic – just about every major production with an aquatic theme has used equipment and manpower from his company.

    But research is still his first love. He sees Nuytco as the armourer for deep sea oceanic researchers and divers from around the world.

    “We´re like the people who live under the stairs. Nobody knows we´re here, but there is very little in our society that doesn´t involve underwater work,” Nuytten says. “The bridges that you cross every morning had their footings placed by deep-sea divers. Trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific cables are all maintained by undersea vehicles. Docks and dams are inspected and repaired by divers. There´s a tremendous amount of underwater work.”

    That work load has increased exponentially with the advent of fibre-optic networks, often laid off shore. Nuytten notes that the city of Victoria is soon to be the northern terminus for a web of cable that runs all the way from Oregon. This web contains a series of sensors on the sea floor, broadcasting back a range of data regarding everything from seismic information to fish stocks to undersea mining.

    “Victoria has gone about this quietly, but in a big way,” he says. “They are setting up a marine observatory centre and a huge inner harbour development all devoted to oceanic research.”

    Nuytten sees British Columbia as a world leader in oceanic expertise. “Vancouver is sometimes called Submarine City because it is such a hot-bed of excellence in undersea technology,” he says.

    Colin Heartwell, Director of Policy and Analysis for the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters Association, notes that while it is only considered a sub-set of Canada´s miscellaneous manufacturing exports, “the federal government has identified ocean technology as a priority of the current Innovation Strategy.”

    Starting the first dive shop in Vancouver as a 15-year-old, Nuytten worked after school and weekends to establish his business. Once he got his feet wet in the industry, there was no looking back.

    After years of salvage diving up and down the coast, in 1979 Nuytten set out to fill what he saw as a gaping hole in the industry – the need for an individual dive suit capable of achieving depths to which only submersibles can descend.

    After years of intense research, in 1987 Nuytten was the recipient of the Canadian Award for Business Excellence for the result of his labours. His invention was called the NEWTSUIT, and was the first one-atmosphere diving suit, allowing the wearer unprecedented dexterity and mobility. He formed a manufacturing company called International Hardsuits, and since then, the NEWTSUIT has found its way into almost every navy in the world.

    Nuytten could have rested on his laurels, but once again he looked to the depths. The technology behind the NEWTSUIT was changing, and the suits themselves were highly expensive to produce.

    After losing International Hardsuits in a hostile takeover to an American firm, he turned his attention to producing single-pilot submersibles called DEEPWORKERS and a lighter and cheaper dive suit called the EXOSUIT.

    He´s just completed a lucrative five-year contract with National Geographic in their “Sustainable Seas” project. And last week, Nuytco sent two submarines and five men down to Texas to train marine scientists, underwater technicians and astronauts from the Canadian Space Agency and Johnson Space Centre in the fine art of piloting these tiny machines.

    The training takes place in a huge pool, 150 feet wide, 250 feet long and 50 feet deep. This is Nuytco´s second training trip to the Texas-sized swimming pool. The first session, held last July, gave a similar training experience to marine and coral reef scientists from the U.S. and Mexico.

    The Canadian astronaut team is led by Dr. Dave Williams, who in past years has had previous neutral buoyancy training in the NEWTSUIT. After the pilot training session, members of the Nuytco team have been invited to participate in the underwater neutral buoyancy laboratory at the Johnson Space Center, where Williams will be working in full space gear in the submerged space shuttle simulator.

    Nuytten himself gave up deep sea diving years ago after losing one too many friends to the dangers of the ocean, but he donned a wetsuit in Texas to shoot underwater videos of the training session.

    Training sessions like these allow Nuytco to continue to focus on developing the small NEWTSUBS and DEEPWORKER submersibles that Nuytten sees as the most direct route to undersea development and, ultimately, to Vent Base Alpha. Nuytten calls Vent Base Alpha a “totally new concept,” and has spent the last couple of years selling it to the international diving community.

    His idea is built around utilizing the deep sea vents that pepper the ocean floor around Vancouver Island. These vents are essentially hot, mineral-rich water flowing out onto the ocean floor through volcanic lava between the tectonic plates upon which Vancouver Island floats.

    The hot, fluid smoke that emerges from the vents is made up of dissolved minerals. According to Nuytten, the more than 500 degree temperature differential between the water and the material emerging from the vents creates an enormous opportunity to generate power. “When you have that kind of free, unlimited power potential, you can literally set up an artificial sun,” he says.

    He visualizes a colony under a giant dome, with an enormous generator utilizing this water power to extract oxygen from the water, grow crops and sustain life support systems on the ocean floor. Miners who lived in this world underneath the sea would then cool the water to selectively drop out the metals present in the vent smoke according to their specific gravity. He sees opportunities for many metals, including molybdenum and most particularly cobalt, plentiful in the vents around the west coast.

    Science fiction, perhaps? When Phil Nuytten, 1992 Order of B.C. recipient, inventor of the military submarine rescue system REMORA, the NEWTSUIT, the EXOSUIT and the DEEPWORKER submersible is involved, you can be sure he´s not out of his league.

    http://www.businessedge.ca/article.cfm/newsID/5152.cfm
    #8725
    Avatar of Eelco
    Eelco
    Participant

    Dunno. I believe these underwater vents were bombarded to ecological niche sometime ago. Mining them would probably be frowned upon.

    That, and seasteading as envisioned by TSI necessarily includes an element of mobility: structures permanently attached to the ocean floor are a different in a way, as they do not provide dynamic geography.

    #10775
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    I like the idea for an alternative to land based industries, however it would have to PAY BIG MONEY, for me to be living in such conditions for 3 months MAX.

    #10782

    Eelco – vents seem to be temporal events that may last less then a decade. So a seastead to exploit them has to move. The general idea is to leave the seastead floating in the watercolumn and harvest the 300 degree hot metal rich liquid mineral water somewhat above the ground without disturbing the vents bio-diversity. As the water is extremly hot it would go up hundreds of meters in a tubing by itself while cooling to “workable” temperature.

    Jack – The seastead would float in cold water and at the same time have a extremly hot water source available (energy and aircon) so i assume general circumstances of living would be much more pleaseant than in a arctic mining operation, a tropical jungle mining location, desert location, etc…

    Consider that this kind of seastead would have a “good reason” to establish on the mid atlantic ridge outside EEZ – that goes far beyond “political reasons” – it would be big business.

    Wil

    —————————————–

    Paper Number 3011-MS
    Title OCEAN IMPLOSION TEST OF CONCRETE (SEACON) CYLINDRICAL STRUCTURE
    Authors Roy S. Highberg and Harvey H. Haynes, Civil Engineering Laboratory
    Source

    Offshore Technology Conference, 2-5 May , Houston, Texas
    Copyright 1977. Offshore Technology Conference
    Language English
    Preview ABSTRACT

    An ocean implosion test was conducted on a pressure-resistant concrete cylindrical structure to obtain the depth at implosion. The structure was a reinforced concrete cylinder with hemispherical end caps, twenty feet (6.1 m) in overall length, ten feet (3.05 m) in outside diameter, and 9.5 inches (241 mm) in wall thickness. The structure was near-neutrally buoyant having a positive buoyancy of 12,000 pounds (5.4 Mg) for a hull displacement of 85,000 pounds (38.5 Mg). The implosion depth of the cylinder was 4700 feet (1430 m). A predicted implosion depth, using an empirical design equation based upon past test results, was 16 percent less than the actual implosion depth.

    INTRODUCTION

    A pressure-resistant, reinforced concrete hull was constructed in 1971 as part of a Seafloor Construction Experiment, SEACON I. The structure was placed on the seafloor at a depth of 600 feet (180 m) for 10 months. Figure 1 shows the SEACON I hull prior to its ocean emplacement. Since its retrieval in 1972, it has been located in the open air about 150 ft. (50 m) from the ocean. In the summer of 1976, the structure was returned to the ocean for an ultimate load test, that is, the structure was lowered into the ocean until implosion.

    SPECIMEN DESCRIPTION

    The cylindrical structure was assembled from three precast, reinforced concrete sections. The straight cylinder section, 10.1 feet (3080 mm) in outside diameter by 10 feet (3050 mm) in length by 9.5 inches (241 mm) in wall thickness, was fabricated by United Concrete Pipe Corporation. The concrete hemisphere end-closures, 10.1 feet (3080 mm) in outside diameter by 9.5 inches (241 mm) in wall thickness, were fabricated in-house. Tolerances on the sections conformed to concrete pipe standards of not to exceed to ±0.75 inch (19 mm) for the inside diameter or minus 0.5 inch (13 mm) for the wall thickness.

    Steel reinforcement in the amount of 0.70% by area was used in both the axial and hoop direction. Reinforcing bars of 0.6 inch (15 mm) diameter were employed throughout the structure. A double circular reinforcement cage was fabricated for each precast section; the concrete cover on the outside and inside reinforcing cage was 1 inch (25 mm). For the cylinder section, hoop rebars had a spacing of 27.25 inches (692 nm) and 31.25 inches (794 mm) for the inside and outside cages respectively.

    The hemispherical end-closures were bonded to the cylinder section with an epoxy adhesive, no other attachment besides the epoxy bond was employed (Figure 2). The gap between the mating surfaces of the hemisphere and the cylinder was less than 0.13 inch (3 mm) for 75% of the contact area. Prior to epoxy bonding, the concrete surfaces were prepared by sandblasting and washing with acetone.

    Source: http://www.onepetro.org/mslib/servlet/onepetropreview?id=OTC-3011-MS&soc=OTC

    —————————————————————————-

    Offshore Technology Conference, 2-5 May 1988, Houston, Texas
    Copyright 1988. Offshore Technology Conference
    Language English
    Preview ABSTRACT

    The U. S. Naval Civil Engineering Laboratory has developed formulas to predict the collapse of hollow concrete spheres or cylinders and has shown that they can remain watertight under the pressure of chemically active deep ocean seawater. This paper tabulates wall thickness, volume of concrete, weight of displaced water, and gives a concrete cost factor for several interior dimensions of one-atmosphere habitats or valve chambers for oil and gas wells, and describes a low-cost method for building submersible concrete structures by shotcrete laminating in floating formwork.

    INTRODUCTION

    The need for a “shirtsleeve” environment for workmen servicing subsea oil and gas wells has long been recognized, and by 1969 the Lockheed Missiles and Space Company had constructed a seafloor pressure chamber called a “wellhead cellar” of steel designed to be lowered from the surface and connected to each well in the undersea field (1). More recently, a study was made on the feasibility of a one-atmosphere subsea collection, test, kill, and transport system for controlling and delivering gas from multiple wells in the Troll field off Norway in 1,115 ft. of water (2). Access to the subsea chamber is via a lift inside a slender steel nonarticulated tube “monopile” which provides a continuous atmospheric connection with the surface and supports a helideck.
    In the past 20 years more than 60 undersea habitats have been deployed for scientific research, or for military, commercial, and recreational use. More are needed, and concrete is the cheapest and most durable material for marine use, but innovative building methods are required to make concrete economically feasible as a substitute for welded steel construction. This paper presents new methods and concepts for using concrete offshore.

    BACKGROUND

    In order to determine the long-term durability of concrete in the deep ocean, the U. S. Naval Civil Engineering Laboratory immersed 18 concrete spheres in the Pacific Ocean at depths ranging from 1800 to 5000 ft. Each sphere was 66 inches in diameter with 4-inch thick walls and was designed for a working depth of about 3000 feet at 1300 psi.
    The design strength of the concrete was 8000 psi but after 5 years, tests showed a 15 percent increase. This remained the same after 10 years. No visible deterioration of the concrete was observed in any of the spheres and leakage varied from 0 to only 14 gallons after 10 years.
    Spheres immersed beyond the designed depth collapsed and a formula was developed to predict the wall thickness needed for concrete spheres and cylinders of various outside diameters to survive at various depths (3). The authors contemplated that in the future, methods may be developed to build massive structures on the seafloor at which time it would be desirable to have designs for negative buoyancy and deeper depths.

    Number of Pages 4

    #10784
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    “300 degree hot metal rich liquid mineral water “

    can you break that down a little more?

    so your proposed harvestable resuorce is made of of 3 elements?

    • 300~ Degree C/F? water.
    • Hot metal, what kinds of metal, how hot is the metal, how much & in what form dose it show its self?
    • Minerals, What kinds, how much, & in what form?

    A picture of this sweet Nipple of the earth would be nice….(I blame my wife)

    #10788

    Looks like there are already mining efforts in progress…seems to be basicly a soup of concentrated mining grade mineral comming out on a well defined spot.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_vent

    #10789
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    NICE, one problem i see with it, your going to need to use a Ground penitrating sonar, to get a 3d structure of the vent(s).

    Then your going to have to drill a little to get to a sweetspot, & thats goin to disrupt the local marine life :( since the more heavy miniral vents look as to bloom & fall out to the seabed faster than you would be able to collect it, & to drill or get a seal with the seabed witha tube or somting would 100% disrupt the local life forms.

    Maybe if we invite more marine engineers to the forums, they could help find some solutions we could affoard to build.

    But you are 100% right that could be a good source of income.

    #10794

    Bob Ballard i giving an interesting talk about this theme. Speaking of “mining grade gold” and other resources.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/264

    On of the big arguments against seasteading has always been – there is nothing to base a solid business on – “out there”. Looks that we just don`t know yet what is out there on mid ocean and below.

    The reason why those vents would play a keyrole in seasteading is because they are the first known “businessfocus” in mid ocean worth to go after. It might be a submerged operation or a remote controlled surface operation at the end – but one thing is clear already this is a “south african gold mine” out of EEZ well worth developing for the BIG money.

    The technology might be a blend of “deep sea salvage technology” with deep sea/oil gas industry and mining industry.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    #10849
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Bob Ballard i giving an interesting talk about this theme. Speaking of “mining grade gold” and other resources.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/264

    On of the big arguments against seasteading has always been – there is nothing to base a solid business on – “out there”. Looks that we just don`t know yet what is out there on mid ocean and below.

    The reason why those vents would play a keyrole in seasteading is because they are the first known “businessfocus” in mid ocean worth to go after. It might be a submerged operation or a remote controlled surface operation at the end – but one thing is clear already this is a “south african gold mine” out of EEZ well worth developing for the BIG money.

    The technology might be a blend of “deep sea salvage technology” with deep sea/oil gas industry and mining industry.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    Hmmm, well I LOVE robots.

    So this is quite interesting in that respect.

    I herd the external electronic components

    have to be pumped full of liquid

    so as not to crush components.,

    like for the robot arms.

    So what specificially would we require of such a robot?

    Can we still make it from ferrocement?

    Also what are the potential energy sources?

    Having a cable from the surface seems to be the contemporary method,

    but if there was an alternative that would be quite interesting.

    We could use oxyhydrogen fuel tanks for more mobile units.

    If they run out of energy,

    the backup process, pumps out the ballast tanks,

    and a “find me” beacon begins transmiting,

    via hydrosonics (for subsurface rescue)

    and electromagnetics (for surface rescure).

    So they could be retreived,

    in case of primary power failure.

    Also electromagnetic communication doesn’t work well underwater,

    so we could use a form of hydrosonic communication,

    perhaps something reminiscent of dolphin clicks and whale songs.

    A thing that I’m really quite curious about,

    is how do we harvest this “vented ore”,

    can we force it to deposit in a net?

    or do we have to bring it up in a large sack,

    and process out the minerals?

    Though we could expand on Ellmer’s earlier anchor ideas,

    by having a tube going to a vent, and then pumping it to the surface for processing.

    The robots would simply help place the flexible piping over a vent.

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    #10866
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    Why would you LOVE robots? All they do is take jobs from humans. Because of that, millions of children are straving and dying as we speak.

    #10874

    A ROV is not really a robot – but ROV technology is fairly well developed so that you can do almost anything in the deep sea that is necessary to bring metal crusts up or suck up metal rich mud, recover diamonds, etc.etc. all this already exists.

    The problem like anywhere is cost. To deploy a ROV on the mid ocean ridge you need a expedition ship that costs 80.000 dollar a day. To get there you need several days. To toss your ROV overboard you need to wait for good weather, the spooling of the cable needs another day, when you are finally down there, weather gets bad after a couple of hours you need to interupt the operation spool up the gear in a high risk operation. Then wait for calm weather again. In practice you may loose an average of 90% of all your expedition time. If you recover a bucket full of metal crusts that have a value of a couple of thousends of dollars you are still writing big red numbers.

    Things change signifficantly if you would count with a nkossa barge sized permanent platform on the mid ocean ridge that allows you to lower the ROV trough a quiet “moonpool” in the center of the barge. You have a “uptime” of 90% and numbers turn black quickly.

    Even better if you could lower the gear from a submarine that is not affected by weather, or work from a deep sea station like vent base alpha.

    Some of the richest mining spots in the world came into existance due to ancient hydrothermal processes, thr mid ocean ridges are the “mother of all hydrothermal processes” – we discovered that recently (look Bob Ballard) – is this a good reason to float out something big to a mid ocean location and do some serious business?

    Wil

    European Submarine Structures AB

    concretesubmarine.com

    #10911
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    Why would you LOVE robots?

    I’ve incarnated as a robot, for over 150 million years.

    Though that was over a billion years ago.

    There’s still some nostalgia,

    especially considering the local tranhumanism.

    We use cellphones and computers as commonplace extensions of our bodies.

    All they do is take jobs from humans.

    You can incarnate as a machine,

    for instance when it has enough capacity,

    to make it a spiritually growing experience.

    Because of that, millions of children are straving and dying as we speak.

    Jobs are slave labour.

    Children are dieing because their parents aren’t growing food

    in permaculture or forest gardening manner,

    which is the best for drought-prone areas.

    A ROV is not really a robot

    It’s a remote controlled robot.

    - but ROV technology is fairly well developed so that you can do almost anything in the deep sea that is necessary

    to bring metal crusts up or suck up metal rich mud, recover diamonds, etc.etc. all this already exists.

    that’s great to hear! :-)

    The problem like anywhere is cost. To deploy a ROV on the mid ocean ridge you need a expedition ship that costs 80.000 dollar a day.

    If we seastead on the ocean, then it will be free, or seasonal if we are on a migrating current.

    To get there you need several days. To toss your ROV overboard you need to wait for good weather, the spooling of the cable needs another day, when you are finally down there, weather gets bad after a couple of hours you need to interupt the operation spool up the gear in a high risk operation. Then wait for calm weather again. In practice you may loose an average of 90% of all your expedition time. If you recover a bucket full of metal crusts that have a value of a couple of thousends of dollars you are still writing big red numbers.

    By having autonomous or semi-autonomous robots,

    we can significiantly reduce costs.

    Since we can simply dump them out,

    they can go down, load up on what their are to retrieve.

    And then float back up to the surface,

    to be picked up by us.

    To have some kind of overview of what is happening with the boats,

    we can use sonic repeater robots, which might be spaced at half a kilometer intervals.

    It could help to have directional sonic emissions, to seperate those going up and those going down.

    Anyhow, via these repeaters, robots could communicate with the surface ship,

    as long as they are within range of a repeater.

    compressed oxyhydrogen can be used as a renewable fuel.

    Things change signifficantly if you would count with a nkossa barge sized permanent platform on the mid ocean ridge that allows you to lower the ROV trough a quiet “moonpool” in the center of the barge. You have a “uptime” of 90% and numbers turn black quickly.

    we could certainly have such “moonpools” or areas of relatively still water,

    as components of our artificial islands.

    Even better if you could lower the gear from a submarine that is not affected by weather, or work from a deep sea station like vent base alpha.

    that might require pressurised rooms, which have additional costs and health risks.

    Some of the richest mining spots in the world came into existance due to ancient hydrothermal processes, thr mid ocean ridges are the “mother of all hydrothermal processes” – we discovered that recently (look Bob Ballard) – is this a good reason to float out something big to a mid ocean location and do some serious business?

    Sure.

    Well I’m more interested in it,

    as in order to be self-replicating,

    we require a source of metal for ferro-cement structures.

    Getting minerals from the ocean floor is a viable route.

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    #10915
    Avatar of Jack
    Jack
    Participant

    I realy think that mining at sea is going to cause some REAL friction with coastal states, i know your talking about the middle of the atlantic or pacific, but Politicians are nothing but arrogant control freaks.

    They will take it badly, even if you have a good reason & they are wrong, remember “Might is Right” when it comes to politics. Justice, & Law are tools, or malleable obstacles, not somthing they take to heart, or as applying to them. (Such as Honor & Chivalry, to knights, simply a tool not somthing to live by or take to heart).

    The most consistent way ive found of predicting the motives & actions of such unfortunate creatures, is to think of them as Feudal Knights or lords of old, since reperesentation is little more than feudal warfare without the swords & castles.

    We are realy going to have to protect our interests some how.

    I think an ROV is the answer to, but maybe a conrete one big one, that sits over the site to extract what we need.

    #10918
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    The costs will vary depending on whether you buy or build your machines, a wild guess would be that you would need to sell thousands of tons of recovered materials to make the whole project economically viable, ROV’s are not suited to recovering so much material, it would be better to have a large “harvester” permanently on the seabed to do the mining, then putting the material in boxes and using airbags to lift them to the surface.

    The harvester would have an umbilical cord to carry power and control from the surface.

    #10923
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Jack wrote:

    We are realy going to have to protect our interests some how.

    The same way we do every night, in secrecy.

    The less noticeable we are,

    the more safe.

    It can also encourage efficiency,

    and make people conscious,

    of any excess noise or garbage

    “evidence” they produce.

    The Illuminati are taking over the world.

    Through the fact they have rings of security,

    it allows them to blackmail or kill,

    anyone that gets in their way.

    Though some get paid off.

    It’s a good life.

    That’s exactly what any government does.

    As holographic models, we have to do it,

    in ways which are compliant with our own policies.

    Remember to let others set their own policies,

    they will anyways.

    Also you are looking at politicians,

    remember that it’s really a corporation,

    a super-organisms, where the members,

    can not survive without the whole.

    So are quite fragile.

    An corporation can either be herbivorous,

    or generating products.

    Like factories, and farms,

    mines and construction.

    or it could be carnivorous,

    feeding on others attainments.

    Like banks and lawyers,

    coast guards and police.

    For a predator to attack,

    it has to be reasonably certain,

    that it will have more gain,

    than potential loss.

    So if it’s really difficult to get us,

    and if they do it’s worthless.

    the’ll seek easier prey.

    ssteve wrote:

    The costs will vary depending on whether you buy or build your machines,

    Definitely we will build our own open source machines.

    a wild guess would be that you would need to sell thousands of tons of recovered materials to make the whole project economically viable,

    that’s only within the fiat economy.

    As self-sustaining tribes, the fact that we get minerals for ourselves,

    to build our own boats and flotillas

    is sufficient reason.

    We have our own economy,

    created by money dinje.

    With members voting on tribe projects,

    which they’d like to do.

    ROV’s are not suited to recovering so much material, it would be better to have a large “harvester” permanently on the seabed to do the mining, then putting the material in boxes and using airbags to lift them to the surface.

    Yes, Ideally we would have it seperated in specialized subdivisions.

    Though if we have any permanently on the ground,

    we would need to get energy from the deep ocean.

    Perhaps some hydro-turbines might work,

    if there are strong enough currents.

    Though if these gysers are as hot as they claim,

    we could also have stirling engine power,

    to generate bottom power.

    The harvester would have an umbilical cord to carry power and control from the surface.

    We could install a permanent cable.

    But we’d be have to willing to defend it.

    We can always use sonic beacon signals for communication.

    Which are much less prone to failure than a 4 kilometer long cable.

    If it’s a bottom installation,

    most wont even know it’s there.

    So it would be easier to defend.

    Like seriously,

    on an average day,

    there are only 5 or 6 civilians,

    partaking in deep sea dives.

    There are more civilians,

    in Antarctica.

    We can sail on ice.

    If you’re near a shore,

    There is plenty of seal and penguin meat,

    for sustenance.

    Though farming gyre surface,

    and doing covert mining on land,

    can be significantly safer,

    an easier on the short term.

    There are places in the world,

    with abundance of particular substance.

    We can go around the world,

    gathering materials,

    from where they are in abundance.

    And bring them back to the seastead island.

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