Clubstead is a failure – what went wrong and what can bo done to avoid new failures?
March 16, 2009 at 2:02 pm #5200
I completely agree. I don’t think our laws should be as restrictive as those in the U.S., our lax laws should not put us into conflict with the U.S., and the morally corrupt party is the U.S.
My concern is emulating the U.S. with our economic structure: things like focusing on providing services rather than producing something tangible, making use of casinos, brothels, opium dens to encourage tourism and engaging in questionable medical practices. Why not completely restructure our seasteading society and be free from so many bad influences the U.S. ships around the world? Let’s offer something new and different rather than a Las Vegas of the seas… we’ve already got cruiseliners that fill that niche.
How can we make Clubstead a success and avoid a failure?
-JasonMarch 16, 2009 at 4:59 pm #5205
Well, as I have previously stated I am quite convinced that many if not most “normal” industries will be very competitive on a seastead. But this will probably take some time to scale up to. In the beginning the UFO/unholy businesses (sex/drugs/rock´n´roll) will have an advantage. And of course there will be those who do it for altogether other reasons, like creating an environmentally friendly society. I guess the bottom line is that different people will do it for different reasons. Some will have great success, others will sink by their own doing, and others still will tick somebody off and get blown up. In the end those who come up with successful formulas will be left.
One thing that probably will not work (while we´re on the subject of the US) is an economy based on borrowing money to spend on consumption. But that clearly doesn´t work on land either.March 17, 2009 at 5:18 am #5219
Your seasteading ideas hold the rare distinction of seeming entirely compatible with living within easy reach of the US (which is quite an enviable situation!), and I’m curious as to the direction you feel that you’re likeliest to pursue. Do you have a specific engineering solution in mind, or are you demurring on more philosophical grounds? Given you’re not as likely to antagonize the mainland, do you expect to maintain a close connection to it?
I think trying to devise a firm self-sustainable financial basis for seasteads is a large motivator of the illicit industry plans (second only, perhaps, to the titillation the planning induces). Do you have specific ideas on how you might avoid such economic constraints for your plan?
m.March 17, 2009 at 1:40 pm #5222
You’re dead on with the comment about an economy based on consumption. I could not agree more. Unfortunately, illicit businesses like gambling, drug dens and prostitution attract those people who have been raised in a consumption oriented society. Can you imagine you’ll see very many Amish, Mennonite, Fundamental Mormon, Buddhist monks or aside from religious groups… frugal frontier folk (like the type who would start seasteading?), farmer commune or tree hugging environmentalists showing up to make use of such base services? I think not.
Honestly, I don’t think I could live near the U.S. for very long. Though I have a lot of pride in my country I see it turning Fascist and seasteading would be my answer. Personally I hope to avoid all contact with the U.S. and run a mobile self sufficient craft with limited submersibility. My hopes is that the society that arises from TSI would be a group of friendly neighbors I could trade/cooperate with… as such I am committed to aiding you all in refining your designs and plans.
As far as a model goes for Clubstead, I’m not one for just mentioning what not to do. As a single platform, Clubstead will be the “show house” for TSI’s future dreams, thus it should incorporate strong elements of our plans… strong enough to speak for themselves regarding seasteading’s viability. I would keep clubstead as a housing design/professional office design with the following features:
- Completely self sufficient from renewable resources. (generate power from solar/air/wave power)
- Have floating farms/aquaculture/fish farms that are seperate from Clubstead but floating nearby and worked by the population of perminent residents of Clubstead.
- A small (to start with) hospitality business to cater to people with an interest in Seasteading. Considering that a small segment of the population is geared toward our way of living and we’d be located near a huge population this industry might be explosively successful for us. Still, we should not rely on it alone.
- With food/water/energy provided “in house” so to speak, our professional office space combined with an extremely low tax policy would attract service related businesses that were not reliant on being a part of the main land. (For instance, I work logistics… handling the shipments of various items across the planet… I could easily set up shop where-ever.)
If we can’t show that Seasteading is a self-autonomous, self-sufficient unit with the Clubstead project then it hurts our credibility. To convince people that this can work we have to show that it does work. Original citizens of Clubstead should be prepared for a “frontier lifestyle” as water use, energy use and menu of daily meals will likely be very different than what the societies currently offer. I for one would gladdly sacrifice my comfort zone for a liberated lifestyle.
With proper design and a conservationist attitude from those living there, I think you’d be surprised just how little energy, food and water a people can live on without compromising health and happiness. If we’re going to leave our shores to seastead it occurs to me that we are leaving a lot more behind than just a bunch of dirt. We’re leaving behind wasteful cultures, we’re leaving behind our self centered point of view and focusing on others for survival, we’re leaving behind an apathetic existance that allows others to make decisions for us. Yeah, It’s scary… but it’s real. I think this is how we were always meant to live.
-JasonOctober 10, 2009 at 6:40 pm #8119
Pastor is there many like you around who are willing to volunteer for such an experimental lifestyle? and are you capable of buying, or funding the construction of your seastead? if so just by reading your post i can say you are welcome to be my neighbor if this project ever solidifies…
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