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This topic contains 31 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of i_is_j_smith i_is_j_smith 3 years, 1 month ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 32 total)
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  • #14238
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    with one exception. The technology and engineering to build any size seastead is been here for decades.I wouldn’t waste any time there. I say focus on raising capital and organize a start up small community.

    #14240
    Avatar of J.L.-Frusha
    J.L.-Frusha
    Participant

    If it’s my place, my kids belong… No problem. No place for YOU or anyone else to tell me what I can or cannot have… Don’t like it, move, I was here first… My neighbors have their kids, what you do with yours is your problem, just don’t be abusing them, lest we all jump your ship…

    Pardon my bluntness, but, that’s pretty much how it will go down.

    Later,

    J.L.F.

    Never be afraid to try something new…

    Remember, amateurs built the ark, professionals built the Titanic.

    #14243
    Avatar of wohl1917
    wohl1917
    Participant

    By what right? By what authority? What constitutes ‘abuse’? After you ‘…jump [their] ship…’ and/or get jumped what then? You’ve assumed responsibility for ‘his/her’ kid (aka snot-nosed, undisciplined brat) who deserved the ass whipping he/she was getting before you intervened, so what now? It’s YOUR problem now! Wouldn’t it be nice if there were a system, Rules of Laws…

    < http://ocr.wikia.com/wiki/Oceanic_Citizens_Republic_Wiki>

    Avatar of Terraformer
    Terraformer
    Participant

    Unlike what seems to be a lot of people on here, I’m not an anarchist – if you abuse people on your seastead, expect to be boarded and inspected, if not by other seasteaders then by the US Navy. Who will just be looking for a valid excuse to shut down all those pesky Seasteads… as a matter of pre-emptive self defense, it behooves seasteaders to establish the Rule of Law among themselves. Sinking a seastead because the owners were smoking pot is one thing, which would draw much condemnation from the public of the offending nation; sinking a seastead because the owners were beating their kids is another thing, rightly drawing much praise from the public of any nation. After a few times, people will lose the ability to tell the difference… and bye-bye seasteaders.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Seasteading is to Boat Living what Traction Cities are to Vandwelling – simply a matter of scale.

    #14447
    Avatar of shadowmane
    shadowmane
    Participant

    wohl1917 wrote:

    Citizenship is open to everyone and no Citizen Captain, Subject Citizen or adult Subject may be discriminated against or privileged on the basis of age, creed, faith, language, origin, parentage, race, sex, or prior state of nobility or immanence (VI.3.6.). Citizen Captains are human beings, natural persons who have attained the age of adulthood and who have assumed and accepted the duty and responsibility as Captain of a vessel. 16 is the age of Adulthood and a Vessel is defined as being 20.5’ or longer at the water line. In other words you have to have a boat. Subject Citizens are human beings, natural persons who have attained the age of 21 years, who have assumed and accepted the duty and responsibility as Heads of Households and who dwell on Ships or Seastations. In other words, in order to enjoy the benifit of having the right to vote you have to have and support a family and live on/in a ship or multi-family seastead. The Head of a Household is a natural person who has assumed the duty and responsibility as the Primary Provider for dependent adults and/or children. A Ship is defined as a vessel 205’ or longer at the water line and a Seastation is defined as a floating platform or structure of at least 43,560 square feet fixed, anchored or otherwise keeping station at a point within the Republic’s Home Territorial Surface, at or about its Extra-Territorial Surfaces. Subjects are human beings, natural persons who are the dependants of a Citizen Captain, Subject Citizen or Subject of the Republic. The Basic Philosophy of Citizenship upon which the Oceanic Citizens Republic is based is that the Citizen Captain, having assumed the duty and responsibility of command, is solely responsible for the care, custody, safety and welfare of the human beings aboard his/her vessel. This is an indisputable fact of nature recognized and codified in International Maritime Law and the Laws of Nations and those human beings who have not assumed this duty and responsibility are not qualified too and have no right to affect the absolute right and decision-making authority of those who have. Such human beings are subject to the authority of their Captain and owe their Captain their trust and loyalty even as the Republic is owed their Captain’s trust and loyalty (I.3.1-4).

    < http://ocr.wikia.com/wiki/Oceanic_Citizens_Republic_Wiki>

    Wait a minute. So you have to be the Captain of a boat of 20.5′ or better, or a pretty sizeable seastead in order to have citizenship in this “Oceanic Citizens Republic”? What about if I had a spar platform seastead made out of a container with a top platform that is roughly 12′x12′? Would that disqualify me? And what makes someone with a 20′ sailboat more qualified to be a “Captain” than someone with a 10′ sailboat?

    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    10′ sailboat? 12′x12′ spar platform? How would those be seaworthy? I think that the other citizens would be wise to not allow any newcomers to join in if theyre gonna drag down the whole operation. that means physically, economically, politically, or if they have some communicable disease. no offense but Ellis Island had an important purpose.

    ____________

    My work

    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #14461
    Avatar of J.L.-Frusha
    J.L.-Frusha
    Participant

    A sailboat as transport and a welded-up cargo-container sparstead are within financial reach… The megastead/corporate-slavestead is just a pipe-dream that seems to be in vogue, at the moment. Y’all tried picking my ideas apart because mine revolved around a family and not some monster corporate-slavestead built and sold at ridiculous prices, requiring people to do the masters bidding, while said master stays stoned and does nothing. If you want to BE the master of the ‘stead, make it one YOU can do everything on. This shit won’t float with all this knocking about on small-scale ideas. Help make it a workable dream, rather than telling those of us with a different set of ideas that they won’t work. My set of ideas are practical and have multi-level profit potential, but y’all dissed on me so much I started keeping my own counsel.

    Later,

    J.L.F.

    Never be afraid to try something new…

    Remember, amateurs built the ark, professionals built the Titanic.

    #14464
    Avatar of J.L.-Frusha
    J.L.-Frusha
    Participant

    shredder7753 wrote:

    when the ‘new world’ was first discovered, the first people to go there were sponsored by monarchs (the worlds purest repulicans – lol) and governments. eventually merchants were able to offer paid trips across the Atlantic. slowly at first, but then with much greater speed, the population in America grew. you had to either pay to come here or have somebody else pay for you. people who did not have resources to trade WERE LEFT BEHIND. and are STILL LEFT BEHIND.

    that is exactly how seasteading is going to work. the fact is, when someone who has enough money gets a strong enough urge to build a seastead (or space habitat), we already have the technology waiting for them. it just wont be cheap.
    unfortunately, there wont be any communism on seasteads. poverty is a much deadlier situation on the ocean than it is on terra firma.
    so what we need is a “Christopher Columbus” to convince someone powerful enough who can really help make it happen. Patri did a nice job with Thiel, but we need that on a whole other magnitude.

    ____________

    My work

    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    Shredder, the 1st people were sponsored to FIND it. The 1st settlers, en mass, in the New World (Americas) were the disenfranchised… the poor, those with other than the prefered religious beliefs (ie: the Pilgrims) and those criminals (often only guilty of pissing-off just the wrong person). My ancestors were Potato-blight Irish and French convicts, to give examples of 2 such groups…

    Later,

    J.L.F.

    Never be afraid to try something new…

    Remember, amateurs built the ark, professionals built the Titanic.

    #14465
    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    my ancestors were also potato blight irish on my dads side, and russian jews (like sergey brins family) on my moms side. both of those groups were disenfranchised. i myself am a half irish catholic/ half jew who grew up in a densely african-american neighborhood during the still racially unfriendly 1990′s (remember the l.a.riots?). i was banked by large groups (20 versus 5), held up at gun point, had people break into my house i grew up in several times and steal things. so what, we live in the biggest racial melting pot there is. but no i was never part of the “in” crowd.

    my personal opinion is that seasteading is gonna cost money – plain and simple. i think im pretty much entitled to that opinion. i dont know why your so offended by my ‘artwork’ still. i simply do not have the slightest idea how its even remotely possibly to seastead on a shoestring budget. therefore i advocate for commercially viable seasteads so you dont have to be extremely smart about how to build a seastead. some people are intelligent at some things but plain stupid about other things. frankly, alot of the wealthiest people i’ve met before are not geniuses. they would rather pay someone else for a product or service and entrust that the person knows what they’re doing. in real life do you hand make every single thing that you use? are you a blacksmith, a farmer, a builder, a lawyer, a dentist, programmer, and a soldier? did you hand make the microprocessor you needed to write on this forum? even if you’re a jack of all trades your not better than a professional at everything. modern society relies on specialization. that is not my fault.

    my designs are intended so that once they are bought and paid for on the FREE MARKET, the owner(s) has the FREEDOM to go about their life with minimal hassle. no matter how much you insist otherwise, theres no enslavement about it. just quality products for well-deserving people.

    i think this is kind of like the iphone versus android fight. believe it or not im an ardent android believer. but i give credit to apple for being the first company back in ’07 to figure out all the details and come to market with a product that many people were collectively hoping for. a phone that can do-it-all in a minimalist form factor. theres a reason why they have more money than the US government. in the end though, i believe in empowering the people. after a company reaps the benefit of being first to market with a product its only fair that society can commoditize it after awhile. Microsoft was a success with Windows but eventually ubuntu linux caught up and made most of the functionality available for free.

    ____________

    My Work II

    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #14491
    Avatar of wohl1917
    wohl1917
    Participant

    first let me welcome you aboard the TSI web site! To answer your questions, 20.5′ is a small vessel, too small really. But the bar had to be set somewhere and 20.5′ was it. That is the size of the smallest vessel to circumnavigate the earth. A spar platform of 12′x12′ is also small, too small really but it would meet the definition of a seastead and would actually have more usable area than a vessel of 20.5′. As the Citizen Captain aboard such a seastead, you would have the right to vote. As for quallifications, the answer is ‘NO’: the captain of a 10′ boat would have the basic skill set to navigate a 20.5′ boat but as I’ve said, a 20.5′ boat is really too small to be practicle just as a 12′x12′ seastead would be too small to be practicle but I had to set the bar somewhere and that’s it! As for Subject Citizens, the Republic encourages Citizenship, emphasis on the word ship! More importantly, Getting married or making a baby doesn’t show anything to an objective person. It’s the stepping up to the plate and taking care of the business that comes later, day after day, year after year that shows something. Being the Head of a Household is a big deal. The reason why Subject Citizens have to live on ships or Seastations to exercise their rights is because their rights cannot interfere with the rights of the Citizen Captains who having assumed the duty and responsibility of command, are solely responsible for the care, custody, safety and welfare of the human beings aboard their vessels and those human beings who have not assumed that duty and responsibility are not qualified to affect the absolute right and decision-making authority of those who have. Ships 205′ long and Seastations of 43,560 square feet would be big enough that a Republican form of government could function and not interfere with those rights.

    < http://ocr.wikia.com/wiki/Oceanic_Citizens_Republic_Wiki>

    Avatar of shadowmane
    shadowmane
    Participant

    And yet there are families who are already “seasteading” on sailboats, where the father is the Captain, and everyone in the family has a role to play. The same is true for any seastead, no matter what the size. My point is you don’t have to have a community seastead to make this work. In fact, you don’t even have to connect the seateads to one another. That’s the beauty of it. If you want to create a fish farming community, you’re going to want to be spread out a little bit. You would only come together when its time to harvest some fish, and you would either have a factory ship stop by, or you have a factory seastead just for the purpose. The idea is to build a community, not a city. Or at least, that’s the idea in my head, and its the idea I will promote.

    #14493
    Avatar of wohl1917
    wohl1917
    Participant

    And the purpose of the Republic is to provide basic guidelines and minimum standards that people can agree to. How individual Seasteads and/or seasteading communities function is their business so long as, in a larger sense in their interactions with the Republic, they are Republican in character and the Rule of Law is maintained.

    < http://ocr.wikia.com/wiki/Oceanic_Citizens_Republic_Wiki>

    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    You are not the only one here who belive in what was called “the low-road”, a family(community) oriented start up small seasteading venture. Like you, there are others here who belive that “If you want to BE the master of the ‘stead, make it one YOU can do everything on.” as you well put it.

    I say that all it takes is to get all this people “in the same room” and have them start a dialog. How hard can that be, to sit down and talk about it? http://seasteading.org/interact/forums/community/feedback-tsi/anybody-interested-floating-out-somethingor-just-talking-abou?page=19

    #14499
    Avatar of i_is_j_smith
    i_is_j_smith
    Participant

    shadowmane wrote:
    And yet there are families who are already “seasteading” on sailboats,

    You’ll see this a lot on the forums, but there is a big distinction between “live-aboard” and “seasteading”.

    I do not consider 1-3 people living on a 20′ sailboat traveling the oceans as “seasteading”. Traditionally the term “seasteading” comes from “homesteading”, which usually means you claim and settle the land. More specifically it comes from the 1862 Homestead Act in the US, which very specifically said you had to “cultivate” the plot of land you were claiming.

    So sailing from port to port in a sailboat would not, in my opinion, be considered “seasteading” because you are not claiming any territory and “improving” or “cultivating” it.

    I would also include that you need to have some measure of self-sufficiency, but that’s also a matter of opinion.

    #14500
    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    well, smith makes some interesting points, but i dont necesarily agree. we should ask ourselves; “do we think that people living on houseboats are seasteaders?”. going by Patris’ vision, doesnt seem like it. but where do we draw the line?

    i think a houseboater is a seasteader. but maybe there should be different ‘levels” of seasteading?

    ____________

    My Work II

    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

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