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Camp site?

Home Forums Research Business Camp site?

This topic contains 23 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of elspru elspru 2 years, 9 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 24 total)
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  • #1699
    Avatar of Elwar
    Elwar
    Participant

    How feasible (and legal) would it be to set up a small “camp site” 7 miles out from land with several little “lots”?

    I was thinking, if I could set up a small seastead (a 10×10 island) with room for a tent and porta potty. I could set up several of them for camping and then maybe have a central site for camp fires. Your day could be spent swimming and snorkling and I could provide jetski rentals etc.

    Finding a sand dune would be perfect so people could stand in the water and hang out. I know of one sand dune nearby that people go to in their boats and just anchor them and hang out.

    What might be the challenges of this?

    As for legality, I live in Florida. I do know of a casino boat 10 miles down the road that goes out 7 miles and allows gambling. So I do not see how I would have much trouble with laws as far as camping.

    #16292
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    its only 3 miles offshore, out of the Florida State “territorial waters”, if I am not mistaken. Also, I think it’s called a sand bar party, or raft up. Done a few here in West Palm and Key West. Lots of fun!

    In order to set up those camp sites as a lucrative business on a sand bar, you’ll have to call and talk to your local Coast Guard people and see what they have to say. In general, your “small floating island” business will have to met certain criteria in terms of seaworthiness, storing and disposing of waste, prevention of potential fire onboard, life vests, flares, state permits?, etc

    #16294
    Avatar of Elwar
    Elwar
    Participant

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:
    certain criteria in terms of seaworthiness, storing and disposing of waste, prevention of potential fire onboard, life vests, flares, state permits?, etc


    Makes sense. I would probably do all of that anyway. How far out does the Coast guard have jurisdiction, and the need for permits?

    #16295
    Avatar of Elwar
    Elwar
    Participant

    Hmm, according to this: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2250/in-international-waters-are-you-beyond-the-reach-of-the-law

    “For historical reasons, Texas and Florida’s claims in the Gulf of Mexico are three marine leagues, which is about nine miles.”

    #16296
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    has unlimited juristiction to board US documented vessels or otherwise state registered vessels of any tonnage, in any waters under the pretense of conducting a “safety inspection”. With other words, if you are 1500nm in the middle of the Pacifc or any other ocean in fact and you are flying an American Flag, Coast Guard can board you.

    You don’t need a permit from the Coast Guard to anchor in the state of Florida. In terms of business permits, it all depends on the state regulations regarding the nature of that business. If a businesslike permanent moored structure is attempted, depending on the location, an environmental impact study might be required by the CG.

    PS. I guess we were both right and wrong about the gambling issue, since I was talking about the Atlantic, and you about the Gulf.

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091022162832AAFF7b1

    #16315
    Avatar of Elwar
    Elwar
    Participant

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    PS. I guess we were both right and wrong about the gambling issue, since I was talking about the Atlantic, and you about the Gulf.

    Interesting yet strange that a state would have two separate laws.

    Too bad, I saw a great sand bar out about 3 miles from shore close to where I live. The Atlantic side drops off a lot sooner and has higher waves.

    Where I am at you have to go out about 40 miles before you hit deep sea. The depth is around 6-20 feet.

    I quasi brought the idea up to my wife yesterday, without getting into anything about seasteading, and she said “they already have charters to the island where you can go camping”. Which is true…I would be creating seasteads close to a place where you can already just go to an island and have the same experience (except for being on a floating island).

    #16316
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    for something like a campsite. It might work. Of course, no gambling. Depending how deep the water on the sandbar, a better money making idea would be a fishing floating platform with bait, burgers and beers. I thought of this sometime ago.

    Boaters would pull in and dock, fish and eat your durgers and drink beer. If big enough, they can stay overnight, on their boat, for a dockage fee, or camp, for a camping fee. Next day you can sell breakfast, more bait, and,.. more beers :) You’d be suprized how much money you can make,…

    Where exactlly is this sandbar?

    #16349
    Avatar of i_is_j_smith
    i_is_j_smith
    Participant

    Considering that TSI had to cancel the entire Ephemerisle program because “the costs of insuring this event in U.S. navigable waters is so high that it is not financially feasible”, and that wasn’t even a profit-making venture just a bunch of people “camping” on the water, you should approach any type of floating business venture with caution.

    Especially something where a person is paying you to sleep in a tent and crap in a porta-potty on a 10′x10′ floating platform 7 miles from shore. Walk into a bank and ask for a small business loan for that business venture, let alone an insurance firm, and see how fast they ask you to leave…

    #16353
    Avatar of Elwar
    Elwar
    Participant

    i_is_j_smith wrote:

    Considering that TSI had to cancel the entire Ephemerisle program because “the costs of insuring this event in U.S. navigable waters is so high that it is not financially feasible”, and that wasn’t even a profit-making venture just a bunch of people “camping” on the water, you should approach any type of floating business venture with caution.

    Especially something where a person is paying you to sleep in a tent and crap in a porta-potty on a 10′x10′ floating platform 7 miles from shore. Walk into a bank and ask for a small business loan for that business venture, let alone an insurance firm, and see how fast they ask you to leave…


    Good call. I was thinking of various safety things that would be required but ya…waking up one morning after a bunch of drunks are partying and finding someone missing would not be very good for business.

    #16356

    It is not necessry to abandon the idea right away – there are working examples as we speak. There is allways a way to do it wrong and a way to do it right – tackle the matter like the quicksilver platform – that works

    see more about the quicksilver platform here

    See more models and how to tackle it here

    Wil

    conretesubmarine.com

    #16359
    Avatar of i_is_j_smith
    i_is_j_smith
    Participant

    Quicksilver platform is not a 10′x’10′ platform with a tent and portapotty. You don’t camp or even stay overnight on it. You cruise to it in a very fancy boat, dock, spend some time swimming and eating, then go back in. That is nothing at all like the OP’s plan for creating a floating oasis for people to use.

    It’s also right on the Agincourt Reef in like 2 feet of water. It also costs $250 for one adult to spend 3.5 hours on this floating platform.

    You cannot compare the quicksilver tours with the OP’s ideas or the Ephemerisle program. It’s as far from seasteading as you can possibly be.

    Now there is nothing illegal about the OP’s idea, since he asked “How feasible (and legal) would it be to set up a small “camp site” 7 miles out from land with several little “lots”?”. It is completely legal as long as you can get the required insurance and permits. So is it legal? Can be. Is it feasible? Only if you charge enough to cover the costs, which I don’t think you can do renting 10′x10′ floating plots with a tent and portapotty.

    #16360
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    So that is the Quicksilver you were referring to in the Belize/Rincon threads. Very nice! A localized version of this looking like the Oceanarium next to a reef in the San Bernardo Archipelago could be quite an attraction. Do you have any idea how deep the reefs are at San Bernardo?

    #16362
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    you have to walk into a bank to get a loan for a 10′x10′ float with few tents on it,…oh well.

    Florida is not California. In Florida you can get $1 mil. liability insurance for couple of hundred dollars a month, have the people using your camp (or floating whatever) sign a release of liability, and you are in business. On the other hand, operating on a reef, it’s a different story. In Florida, most of the reef areas located in the Florida Keys are National Marine Sanctuary, and are protected by the law. If you destroy or damage a coral head and get caught, you will do time. A Quicksilver like business here in Florida, right on the reef, will be hard to pull in terms of getting the environmental permits. I don’t know about Australia. But in Belize it would be much easier. I did look into it. That’s why I personaly like the Alligator Cay which is 100 yards from the reef.

    To me, Islas San Bernardo area looks pretty shalow with some nice reefs, from Google Earth, better than Rincon in terms of operating a Quicksilver like business there. I mean, if you are on the water, might as well be on a reef and have something to sell,…plus, fishing is better there :) Still, Belize would be better because is closer to US, has nicer reefs and is an english speaking country. After all, such business will have to bring gringo dollars because otherwise, I don’t see it making it on the locals alone, IMHO.

    #16369
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Florida looks good for doing the houseboats and light rafts as a low cost startup, just keep it cheap, lots of tourist traffic. The houseboats can cruise to the reef. Too bad the houseboat rental business for sale on craigslist is 100 miles from Keywest. Wonder what the monthly berth costs and occupancy rates are on the rentals. It would be best to see the books before buying it.

    I still like Alligator Cay, would need foreign tourist business to work, the cheap dock rentals are also a plus.

    Rincon looks like it could make it on local business from Cartagena, judging from the crowds in the Oceanarium videos, has a nice reef and islands nearby which could also draw foreign tourism, a lot of different business options, and looks the most recession proof, but it is farther away than Belize and a different language.

    These are all good options with merits.

    #16377
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    think that business is doing to good, that’s why they are selling. I know were they are located, in the Gilbert’s Marina, few miles before entering Key Largo, off US 1. It’s pretty nice there, but for the last couple of years the business kind of dried up in the whole Upper Keys area.

    And $99k for 3 houseboats alone, it’s not worth it. A decent, functional 34′-37′ houseboat can be bought for $15k in this market, and there are plenty around, even for cheper prices.The options that you mentioned are all good, I agree. But I thing we should consider them according to how much money we can raise. To me, if the capital is under $100k, we should stay here in US, since that ain’t enough to go anywhere else. Also, if we are talking about $100k or less, we can get that money much easier here, since most of us who would be potential investors are here in US.

    I also think that a psychological “safety” factor is involved when doing business abroad, regarding finding investors. The safety of the financial and regulatory business system is high here in US compared to a foreign country, so most of the investors will feel that their money and interests are much secure here than anywhere else.

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