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Buying Bulk Food

Home Forums Archive Infrastructure Buying Bulk Food

This topic contains 10 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Distorted-Humor Distorted-Humor 3 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 11 posts - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
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  • #1448
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Hey, I really would like to practice buying in bulk,

    for when we go on a sailing trip round the world,

    want to have 6 to 18-months of food.

    I read in a book that staples weren’t that important,

    perhaps this is the case indeed,

    if so how much backup-food would you recommend?

    Also if anyones had experience buying food in bulk,

    your experience and comments would be appreciated.

    #12520
    Avatar of wohl1917
    wohl1917
    Participant

    with buying in bulk is storage and space. Staples generally have to be repackaged for long term storage and efficient use of space. Staples ARE that important. Luxury food items, like caned goods or anything that has been ‘processed’ regardless of how its packaged, more often than not can’t be repackaged for long term storage and so take up a lot of space. It is a sacrifice most people make otherwise meals would be too monotonous over the long haul.

    So, around the world on a sailboat big enough to carry 6 to 18 months of food? Spru, dude…. so, how big is this boat?

    < http://ocr.wikia.com/wiki/Oceanic_Citizens_Republic_Wiki>

    Yep, if you want to be autonomous in remote areas for long time periods you need a “vessel” that has a LOT of loading capacity. Unfortunatly a traditional yacht is not very big in “loading capacity” it has a “construction waterline” where it is supposed to float and when you load to much “seaworthyness” drops dramaticly.

    We are talking about a few hundred kilos of load…

    On the other hand a big load capacity would not only give you the chance to load tons of bulk canned food where it is cheapest, but also make a bug with trading….

    A 20m substead like ians boat has a load capacity of 100 tons in its underfloor compartments – this creates feasibility for buying bulk food and goods and trade with it over long distances – possibly worldwide.

    Obviously you can not compete with standard container freight rates – but you can go for small niches that are not covered by the big ships – like supply cold beer to a remote island beach resort.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    European Submarine Structures AB

    #12531
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Yep, if you want to be autonomous in remote areas for long time periods you need a “vessel” that has a LOT of loading capacity. Unfortunatly a traditional yacht is not very big in “loading capacity” it has a “construction waterline” where it is supposed to float and when you load to much “seaworthyness” drops dramaticly.

    how abour ferrocement boats? are they in any way special, or is it due to the ballast-design?

    We are talking about a few hundred kilos of load…

    That should be enough for at least half a years worth of dry food for two people,

    only need about 600 grams of dry food per person per day,

    100 kilo should be sufficient for 5 and a half months.

    the main thing I guess I getting a food dehydrator,

    and a really good water-making or rain-filtering system.

    On the other hand a big load capacity would not only give you the chance to load tons of bulk canned food where it is cheapest, but also make a bug with trading….

    I was hoping of simply making a full-keel into a submersible, though that may not be sufficient.

    Hmmm, well how fast do you think a person with perhaps a few friends can build a submersible geometric balancing boat?

    A 20m substead like ians boat has a load capacity of 100 tons in its underfloor compartments – this creates feasibility for buying bulk food and goods and trade with it over long distances – possibly worldwide.

    I’m hoping on getting a smaller or more ordinary boat first, hopefully ferrocement.

    then upgrading as we settle into our freedom lifestyle.

    Obviously you can not compete with standard container freight rates – but you can go for small niches that are not covered by the big ships – like supply cold beer to a remote island beach resort.

    cold beer lol, they could just refrigerate it,

    they can also easily make their own beer.

    besides alcohol is a destructive inhibitor,

    and promotes self-destructive behaviour.

    i was thinking of going up and down the coast,

    bringing exotic fruits and herbs from one latitude to another.

    can also bring technology from areas of production to areas of consumption.

    Of course that’s the life of a merchant, whilst I’m a programmer,

    though could be one of the many things a seasteader be involved in.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #12532
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    wohl1917 wrote:

    with buying in bulk is storage and space. Staples generally have to be repackaged for long term storage and efficient use of space.

    How do you recommend packaging them?

    Staples ARE that important. Luxury food items, like caned goods or anything that has been ‘processed’ regardless of how its packaged, more often than not can’t be repackaged for long term storage and so take up a lot of space. It is a sacrifice most people make otherwise meals would be too monotonous over the long haul.

    I refrain from all metal canned food.

    unless we can store our own food of course.

    then it could be pickled, fermented, or oiled in barrels.

    So, around the world on a sailboat big enough to carry 6 to 18 months of food?

    Spru, dude…. so, how big is this boat?

    Well I’m thinking between 25-35 feet.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #12540
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    it’s a bit more extensive of a subject so I would suggest you read some books about it. Here is a link that might shed some light http://www.cruising-women-on-yachts.com/galley-provisioning.html. If you are trying to “refrain” from metal canned food you might be starving one day. Also, if you are planning to go around the world I would suggest @ least a 40′ sailboat, and a heavy displacement one. More infos on ferrocement boats here http://www.ferroboats.com/ or here http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/cache/searchResults.jsp?toPrice=80000&searchtype=advancedsearch&Ntk=boatsEN&hmid=108&sm=3&enid=0&cit=true&toLength=100&currencyid=100&luom=126&boatsAddedSelected=-1&ftid=0&fromPrice=1&fromLength=30&slim=quick&No=30. If a ferro, I would look for a Samson Marine or a Hartley. What would also help is to read some books about sailing and cruising and take some classes in navigation. Sailing classes will also help a lot.

    #12553
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    it’s a bit more extensive of a subject so I would suggest you read some books about it. Here is a link that might shed some light http://www.cruising-women-on-yachts.com/galley-provisioning.html. If you are trying to “refrain” from metal canned food you might be starving one day.

    I don’t know of any canned foods even worth eating.

    So I’m not sure what you mean by that.

    Can get all our nutrients, carbohydrates, protein and fat from dry foods.

    Also we have the ability to gather fresh fruits and vegetables,

    as well as if we are on the brink of starvation,

    we could catch fish/crustaceans.

    One of our main high-latitude staples is pine-bark,

    if cooked it can be broken up and used as flour,

    it is high in sugars and starches.

    the leaves are high in nutrients.

    berries are fairly commonplace,

    can be dried and added to meals.

    Also, if you are planning to go around the world I would suggest @ least a 40′ sailboat, and a heavy displacement one.

    Hey I made a design for a 22ft sailboat which displaces 84 tons, materials cost $4,200

    http://www.seasteading.org/interact/forums/engineering/structure-designs/phi-golden-ratio-boat-designs

    tell me what you think

    More infos on ferrocement boats here http://www.ferroboats.com/

    been there done that

    or here http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/cache/searchResults.jsp?toPrice=80000&searchtype=advancedsearch&Ntk=boatsEN&hmid=108&sm=3&enid=0&cit=true&toLength=100&currencyid=100&luom=126&boatsAddedSelected=-1&ftid=0&fromPrice=1&fromLength=30&slim=quick&No=30.

    er the cheapest is a really shitty $5000, 33ft looks like it’s rusting pretty bad.

    Just this summer I was on a ferroboat in good condition only cost $3,000.

    If a ferro, I would look for a Samson Marine or a Hartley.

    I’m really quezy about ballasted boats,

    Ellmer says they are unstable under heavy load conditions.

    What would also help is to read some books about sailing and cruising

    Yep done that, been reading related books for at least 2 years it seems.

    Recently my girlfriend got me the voyages of captain cook.

    Though I’ve read many contemporary cruising books also.

    By The Way have you heard of Sea-Steading: A Life of Hope and Freedom on the Last Viable Frontier by Jerome Fitzgerald?

    It’s a great book, other than that he complains a lot about random things.

    An example of living at anchor with minimal supplies.

    and take some classes in navigation.

    I’m fairly good navigator as it be, and there are some good books about it.

    I know about plotting a course, winds, tides, seasons, daylengths, star-charts,

    how to improvise and use compass, map, sextant, depth-line (sounding-line), speed-line (chip-log),

    Sailing classes will also help a lot.

    I already started in August, till October 2010,

    season reopens in April 2011 and I have several cheques already signed out to them.

    It’s sailing on Albacores mainly, they also have lazers, and a catamaran,

    was hoping to get my dad’s wind-surf down there as well,

    store it at the club for the season,

    and experience the fastest sailing.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #12555
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    It seems that you have all the answers figured out.

    Wishing you the best with your circumnavigation on your 84 TONS 22′ sailboat.

    #12556
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    It seems that you have all the answers figured out.

    Wishing you the best with your circumnavigation on your 84 TONS 22′ sailboat.

    lol, well I’m not sure I’ll have a chance to build it, before leaving,

    we’ll probably track down that ferroboat we found in the summer.

    Our boats will be built on coraline or limestone beaches somewhere,

    maybe Ellmer will let me apprentice for a while first.

    My partner is getting certified for child-care,

    I figure children are children even in Columbia.

    I do plan on making a dinghy,

    perhaps 0.5:1.5:2 meters height:width:length,

    0.5 * 1.5 * 2 = 1.5

    displacing about 1.5 tons

    with 1cm thick ferrohull

    (0.5m*2m*2 + 1.5m*2m + 0.5m*1.5m*2)*1cm * 2400kg/m^3

    that’ll weigh around 157 kilos or 350lb,

    can be moved by 3 strong people.

    portland-cement is $15 for 40kg,

    so I’m estimating cost of materials be about $50-$80.

    Of course I’ll also have to get a welder, safety equipment, camo-blanket,

    so it might be $250 once all that is accounted for.

    still very valuable experience for a future ferroboat owner.

    calm aware desire choice love express intuit move

    #12568
    Avatar of wohl1917
    wohl1917
    Participant

    For the big Y2K hoax I bought dry beans, peas and rice in big bags and repackaged it all in glass 1 gallon glass pickle jars. Canned goods consisted of mostly canned meat. For greens, I planned to eat right out of the yard! There is plenty out there all you have to do is go out and get it. I chose pickle jars for storage ’cause that happened to be what I had available in quantity on hand. On land, this has worked out pretty well but at sea, glass jars would not be practical. 1-5 gallon PVC buckets would probably be better for that purpose at sea. From my reading it seems a consistent point in the various survival stories that anything that floats, even in the vast areas of the ocean where commercial fishing isn’t economical, creates its own ecosystem. A floating structure, like a Seastead, would do the same. You could catch the odd fish or crustacean and grow kelp and other seaweeds for greens. But, the question would be ‘How much stress could you put on that ecosystem to support how many people?’ Again, from my reading, my guess is not to much for not too many… I wouldn’t gamble lives on it in any case! No, ‘worth eating’ or not, I’d have some canned meat aboard.

    < http://ocr.wikia.com/wiki/Oceanic_Citizens_Republic_Wiki>

    Avatar of Distorted-Humor
    Distorted-Humor
    Participant

    #10 cans – Mormons have been doing food storage for longer then most….

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