Border security laws.
July 3, 2009 at 2:42 pm #986
Will imports or exports on the Seastead be subject to search? Will they be subject to any tariffs, taxes, fees, etc? Will there be rules about what can and cannot be brought onto a Seastead? For example, say someone decides to start up a thermonuclear weapons trading post on the seastead. Do we allow them to sell thermonuclear weapons on the open market and import/export at will?July 3, 2009 at 3:02 pm #6789
Good question!July 3, 2009 at 4:17 pm #6790
Border security would entail that a country can check imported merchandise, customs basically.
“What would we allow”
Well, any one seastead would have to draft up it’s own rules. If there is to be a “seastead nation”, there would be some common rules that apply to all participating seasteads. Sovereign means sovereign though. If one stead remains independant, the resident(s) could do wathever they want, but some other nations might interfere …July 3, 2009 at 4:41 pm #6795
As Michael said, and I said in the drug thread, it’s up to individual communities to set those rules.
- NickJuly 3, 2009 at 4:44 pm #6796
DittoJuly 3, 2009 at 11:05 pm #6802
I would agree with banning certain extreme items, but only very extreme ones, like nuclear bombs. I wouldn’t think search programs would need to be required. I’ve argued before that seasteaders as a group should agree to certain rules to prevent harm to other seasteads, like no war with other seasteads, people free to change seasteads, etc. I’m a JS Mill fan, and to steal a quote: “That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others.” I would think harboring certain things, like nuclear weapons, other WMDs, terrorists, etc. would qualify as being dangerous to nearby seasteads. If someone wants to build a boat and do this stuff on it I can’t really stop them, but I at least hope they’d do it on the other side of the ocean.
As far as anything besides those super-extreme cases, leave it up to the individual seastead. If some people want to ban books and drugs from their seastead, and search everyone coming on board to make sure they don’t have any, let them try it and see how it works out. I just won’t be spending much time on that seastead.July 3, 2009 at 11:30 pm #6805
The question of most importance is not what will be allowed or not allowed on a Seastead (primary rule of seasteads is that each group gets to set their own social contract), but instead what other countries will allow from Seasteads.
The BIGGEST challenge facing seasteads is not the universal solvent that is the mighty ocean or the way in which we will govern ourselves, the biggest challenge is how we will keep the governments of the world from destroying us.
Two things are uber critical for the steads; 1) self sufficency (as a group not as individuals) and 2) the ability to produce.
We can NOT count on ANY resources coming from the land. There are two very simple reasons why; tariffs and sanctions.
The government of any nation (read US or UN) that does not favor the freedom of choice that seasteads represent will do all that is in its power to destroy the seasteads that is in thier legal framework. While the navies of most nations will not have popular support to kill innocent people, it is rather simple to run a smear campaign and spread misinformation in order to change public opinion. Considering the current light most Libertarians are viewed by the socialist ilk of the world, this is a rather simple thing to do. One only has to look at how the media is handling the Honduras situation (or even NOT handling it) to understand that perception and reality are very different.
But the truth is that a navy will not be needed to kill a seastead that is dependent on LAND for anything.
ALL governments are free to create tariffs, and unless your flag of conveyence is with a great trading partner, seasteaders can rest assured that governments of the world will find it in their best interest to impose brutally high taxes on imports from and exports to Seasteads.
One only has to look at North Korea and the sanctions the governments of the world have imposed and are attempting to strengthen to understand that a UN hostile to seasteaders will destroy them by isolation. The United States can flip a switch and make trading with seasteads completely illegal. All these dreams of owning web based businesses on Seasteads are awash on the ocean once the banks of the world stop sending their fiat currency to Seasteaders.
How will seasteads survive if they can not trade with the land? How will seasteads grow in number and increase their infrastructure if the nations of the UN prohibits nations from building them?
To be successful a seastead must be a completely recognized legal entity that provides a valued trading partner. The Seasteads must be completely independent and offer something of tangible value that the world desprately needs. How do we legally insure that the right to exist of seasteads (either under a flag of conveyence or sovereign) is maintained? How do we ensure that a seastead will be able to provide a service that Land dwellers can not live without?
We must answer these two questions. Without the bedrock of the answers to these two questions, the structure of our new world can never be built.July 3, 2009 at 11:59 pm #6807
The idea that a seastead would tolerate their citizens’ engaging in activities that is practically sure to bring about an existential threat to the seastead seems rather unrealistic to me.
It is a “problem” that wherever it will appear will be solved automatically according to evolution by natural selection:
- Seastead starts building nukes.
- Seastead gets blown up by Tomahawk missile.
- Problem solved.
Trade will not be a problem. Unless you build nuclear weapons or otherwise act like North Korea of course. So don’t do that.July 4, 2009 at 2:21 am #6809
My answer to the first 3 ones is “I dont know”.For the 4th one, “Do we allow them to sell thermonuclear weapons on the open market and import/export at will?” I will comment a bit. Since you just want to visit , Aakno, (per your profile) and being just a turist on this future seastead, it seems to me that you freely enroled yourself in the decision making process. “Do we allow them to,..” What makes you think that as a foreigner, visiting a sovereign nation (the seastead) you would have any say regarding their internal affairs?July 4, 2009 at 3:55 pm #6814
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_and_Linda_Tannehill (fixed it for you.)
It should be noted that whenever I say “we” I mean we as individual seasteads and not we as an all encompassing seastead government.
The answer to Aakno’s questions more directly:
Will imports or exports on the Seastead be subject to search?
Certainly. Governments will inspect and search them to the same or a higher degree they search foriegn cargo now. Groupings of Seasteads will find it in their best interest to inspect cargo for the same reasons. Logical people will not want disease or contaminated substances to enter their homes.
Will they be subject to any tariffs, taxes, fees, etc?
Things going into Seasteads will be subject to whatever the grouping of steads decided. Things coming from steads and going to landbased markets will be subject to all the existing controls on markets. Above I explain why it is critical that as a whole the community needs the tools to be self sufficient. Certainly places like rural Africa and other countries with incentive wil trade with seasteads, but only to the extent that the uber governments (the UN and other treaty organizations) allow.
Will there be rules about what can and cannot be brought onto a Seastead?
All owners have a say on what can and cannot be allowed on their poperty, this is a tenant of ownership. The owner may transfer this authority (with conditions) to another person for expediency, and it is to be understood that the right to exist can not be impeded on by another. Thus by extension the group has a limited authority to dictate actions on others within their sphere of influence. This is why Dynamic Geography is critical to the long term freedom and success of seasteads.
For example, say someone decides to start up a thermonuclear weapons trading post on the seastead. Do we allow them to sell thermonuclear weapons on the open market and import/export at will?
We have no authirty to directly prohibit another from selling nuclear weapons, however because selling nuclear weapons manifests a very real threat for reprisal by the uber governments of the world, the market in nuclear weapons constitutes a direct threat to the security of the seastead and the surrounding group. So by the extension of the rights of an individual not to be put to harm by another, the group has a right to reject the selling of nuclear weapons by one of its members. This means that the group can expell the individuals making market in nuclear weapons. The seastead individual has a right to distance itself from any dangerous individual, and if the dangerous individual does not all the distance to occur, the individual seeking safety has a right to use force to create the necessary safe distance.July 4, 2009 at 5:02 pm #6815
As far as anything besides those super-extreme cases, leave it up to the individual seastead. If some people want to ban books and drugs from their seastead, and search everyone coming on board to make sure they don’t have any, let them try it and see how it works out. I just won’t be spending much time on that seastead.
SecondedJuly 7, 2009 at 8:42 pm #6878
My answer to the first 3 ones is “I dont know”.For the 4th one, “Do we allow them to sell thermonuclear weapons on the open market and import/export at will?” I will comment a bit. Since you just want to visit , Aakno, (per your profile) and being just a turist on this future seastead, it seems to me that you freely enroled yourself in the decision making process. “Do we allow them to,..” What makes you think that as a foreigner, visiting a sovereign nation (the seastead) you would have any say regarding their internal affairs?
While I did put “just visiting” in my profile, I intend to own a piece of a Seastead as a vacation property. I don’t know what kind of say that would give me in the internal affairs, though I imagine some small quantity above zero. I imagine a good portion of a Seastead’s income will come from time-shares by people like me. I imagine it would be possible to run an entire Seastead by people who only just visit. I guess you bring up a good question.July 8, 2009 at 12:13 pm #6812
Tholan is right on the money. “We” (a collectivist political term that the masses have been conditioned to spew freely) will not be controlling anything. The markets are always inevitably in control. “I” can only find, use, and develop them.
That said, defensive technology is more insurable and fundable than offensive technology. The classic anarcho-capitalist booklet, “The Market for Liberty” (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_and_Linda_Tannehill) is an excellent primer on the evolution of a free-market defense business. Check out chapter 8.July 8, 2009 at 1:52 pm #6883
As a coowner, I would think that you would have full rights, (small quantity bellow 100% on demanding that your property and yourself are well protected under the law (whatever that law might be). In terms of thermonuclear,…staff, it seems a bit far fetch to me, that one day, Ivan, a former KGB now turned freelance, would walk (actually sail) to wherever the seastead might be and start dealing nukes left and right… And those out there (former KGB, or otherwise part of the “inteligence” of any nation) already trying to infiltrate on a future seastead for whatever purpose, shud keep in mind all the time that there might be “some”, on the same seastead with better “connections” than them.
I’ve seen few movies on the subject and it seems that it always goes down like that.July 8, 2009 at 11:49 pm #6893
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