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BERGSTEAD SEBASTIAN – 1/12 scale

Home Forums Community Active Seasteading Projects BERGSTEAD SEBASTIAN – 1/12 scale

This topic contains 84 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of shredder7753 shredder7753 1 month, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 85 total)
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  • #1723
    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    Before the second Berg model was built there were many drastic changes in the design. But after it’s been tested there are no major changes I want to make now to the hull. We’ll still call it the Kiwi Berg design (ch-ch-ch-ch-changes). And now I am itching to build a much bigger one, in which i can build-out and test all of the electronics and hydroelectric generation with ample space.

    Scale: 1/12

    Base: 1.25m sq.

    Height: .85m

    Total weight with pyramid: 1,814lbs

    Exterior wall thickness: 1+1/8 in

    Water displaced by the hull: 218 gallons

    Concrete needed: 16 60lb bags @ $11.43 ea = $183 (using Quikrete Fastset – 7,000 psi rated)

    Pump needed: 25-50 gpm. This is a whole new dimension of pumps. It will use 1-2 KW of power. I would buy the brass pump unit separately from the motor and have to assemble it. I might decide not to do that, and use the pump I have. It will take 15 minutes to pump in the water and another 15 to pump it out.

    How to carry? http://delaware.craigslist.org/for/2720356932.html

    (i’ll update this with more specs probably)

    these are the 1/16 and the 1/8 size models along with the 1/35 which has already been tested.. what is nice about the 1/8 size is that u can actually pull up to it with a boat, set a small table on it and up to 4 people could have a meal. that would prove the stability and comfort of the design.
    #16656
    Avatar of wohl1917
    wohl1917
    Participant

    1/16 or 1/8 size models Shredder. You’ve proven your concept and these intermediate scale models will only take time and spend money. If I were you, I’d go to a 1/4 scale model. I would be just big enough to be actually functional as a Seastead demonstraitor and get you the investor you need to build a fullsized Bergstead.

    < http://ocr.wikia.com/wiki/Oceanic_Citizens_Republic_Wiki>

    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    at 1/4 scale it would weigh 60 tons, and cost at least $75K to build – easily more. the cost goes up exponentially. i could maybe do the 1/8 scale for $15-20K. as Ellmer can tell u its not just material cost for the concrete, the pump(s), piping, coatings electrical, work, and even the cost of building the formwork for the concrete are all very significant at that scale.

    ____________

    Inventor of the “Bergstead”

    I cant afford this project send me money!

    #16664
    Avatar of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    shredder7753 wrote:

    Before the second Berg model was built there were many drastic changes in the design. But after it’s been tested there are no major changes I want to make now to the hull. We’ll still call it the Kiwi Berg design. And now I am itching to build a much bigger one, in which i can build-out and test all of the electronics and hydroelectric generation with ample space.

    Scale: 1/16

    Base: 1.25m sq.

    Height: .85m

    Total weight with pyramid: 1,814lbs

    Exterior wall thickness: 1+1/8 in

    Water displaced by the hull: 218 gallons

    Concrete needed: 16 60lb bags @ $11.43 ea = $183 (using Quikrete Fastset – 7,000 psi rated)

    Pump needed: 25-50 gpm. This is a whole new dimension of pumps. It will use 1-2 KW of power. I would buy the brass pump unit separately from the motor and have to assemble it. I might decide not to do that, and use the pump I have. It will take 15 minutes to pump in the water and another 15 to pump it out.

    How to carry? http://delaware.craigslist.org/for/2720356932.html

    (i’ll update this with more specs probably)

    these are the 1/16 and the 1/8 size models along with the 1/35 which has already been tested.. what is nice about the 1/8 size is that u can actually pull up to it with a boat, set a small table on it and up to 4 people could have a meal. that would prove the stability and comfort of the design.

    Oh ya the 1/16 size with a volume of 0.825 tons, so could easily support your weight,

    Hey, I’d suggest making the design a bit simpler, and putting a hatch in the top,

    that way it could float, you could get inside for a sit, and do long term anchoring tests.

    Who knows once you test it, might be able to use it as a direct dive submarine,

    that would also allow you to sell the prototype and make some money.

    We with You are a Network, our goal to become technologically-enabled reproducible family communities. http://weyounet.info

    #16668
    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    ____________

    Inventor of the “Bergstead”

    I cant afford this project send me money!

    #16681
    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    does anybody know how fast the ocean currents are? im looking everywhere and i cant really find it. i need to know because i dont want to waste my time with turbines if the currents are too slow out there. anybody?

    i sent Hydrovolts this image with an inquiry. i’ll let u know wht i find out:

    this has 4 of their “class III” turbines in line.

    ____________

    Inventor of the “Bergstead”

    I cant afford this project send me money!

    #16684
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Based on the chart above, you’re looking at about 1-15 kilowatts of power in the Gulf Stream for the largest turbine class, according to information from http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/EugeneStatnikov.shtml ,

    Bibliographic Entry Result
    (w/surrounding text)
    Standardized
    Result
    Coble, Charles R., Elaine G. Murray, and Dale R. Rice. Earth Science. 3rd ed. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice Hall, 1987: 256-257. “The Gulf Stream moves at speeds greater than 1.5 meters per second.” 1.5 m/s
    Adams, John, et al. “Ocean Currents.” Microsoft Encarta. 2 vols. CD-ROM. Redmond: Microsoft, 1999. 191. “Whereas speeds of surface currents can reach as high as 250 cm/sec (98 in/sec, or 5.6 mph) a maximum for the Gulf Stream, speeds of deep currents vary from 2 to 10 cm/sec (0.8 to 4 in/sec) or less.” 2.5 m/s
    (surface)

    0.02–0.10m/s
    (deep water)

    Gaskell, T F. The Gulf Stream. New York: John Day Company, 1973. 95. “At the narrowest point of the Florida Straits, the water masses in a cross section approximately 70 km wide and 200 m deep are moved forward at a speed of more than 1m/sec are moved forward at a speed of more than 1 m/s.” 1 m/s
    Gross, M.G. Oceanography: A View of the Earth. 3rd ed. New York: Prentice Hall, 1982: 173, 177. “Meanders move slowly northeastward with the Gulf Stream at speeds of 8 to 25 centimeters per second (7 to 22 kilometers per day).” 0.08–0.25 m/s
    Gross, M G. Oceanography. 6th ed. Columbus: Merrill, 1990: 74-75. “The relatively narrow, jet-like currents of the Gulf Stream system and the Kuroshio off Japan are the largest currents in the ocean. They have speeds between 40 and 120 km/day (25 to 75 mi/day).” 0.4–1.3 m/s

    Ocean waters move continuously. Anyone who sails or swims in the ocean knows the horizontal water movements called currents. Some currents are transient features and affect only a small area, such as a beach; these are the ocean’s response to local-often seasonal-conditions. Other currents extend over large parts of the world ocean; these are the response of the ocean and atmosphere to the energy flow from the tropics and subtropics to sub-polar and polar regions.

    The speed of these current varies based on the gyres, or currents that are kept in motion by prevailing winds. Each gyre consists of four currents. Open-ocean, east-west currents form the gyre’s northern and southern limbs and boundary currents sitting nearly parallel to the continental margins, generally oriented north south, join these gyres. The North Pacific Current or the North and South Equatorial currents travel at speed of 0.03 to 0.06 m/s. The Gulf Stream, and the Kuroshio Currents flow with speed up to 0.4 to 1.2 m/s. California Currents and the Canary Current travel at 0.03 to 0.07 m/s.

    These speed measurements come mainly from observations of surface currents that begun early in the 19th century. These observations were important especially for merchant ships, which traveled the oceans back and forth. These ships took courses that often had discrepancies between their intended position and their actual position after they had traveled for a period. The discrepancies were caused by the deflection of the ships by surface currents (which could reach speeds as high as 2.5 m/s). Thus the knowledge of the direction and speed of the local current became important, as it could be deduced from a ship’s actual position after it has been steered on a given course, to obtain the desired course.

    Eugene Statnikov — 2002

    #16692
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    You’ll have fish, seaweed and all kind of floating junk stuck in it and it will be a bitch to maintain and service. Plus, the output will suck. Just get some solar panels and wind generators. Oooups! Forgot you have to submerge, those won’t work. I guess you are stuck with low efficiency, high maintenance turbines. :)

    Now, to built 60 tons of Bergstead will cost you far, far more than $75k. Also, keep in mind when you plan to built and sell Bergsteads, that nowadays, less than $30k will buy you this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330649696975&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:MOTORS:1123

    #16693
    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    So Ocean, i guess ur giving up now? throwing in the towel? raising the white flag? by resorting to houseboating, i take it u admit defeat?

    ____________

    Inventor of the “Bergstead”

    I cant afford this project send me money!

    #16695
    Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    “By resorting to houseboating, I take u admit defeat?”,….I don’t see the logical relation between the two…. First, I was never @ war with anything, so,…how can I have been defeted, lol ? :) Second, the implication that resorting to houseboats is somehow “low-class”? or “undesireable”? when it comes to seasteading is very misguided, to say the least.

    If a low budget “seastading like” small venture is to be started close to shore, in protected waters, what else you gonna use for living quarters, other then houseboats? Sailboats or powerboats are more expensive and less roomier than houseboats when it comes to dollar/ square foot of accomodations. Also, psychologically speaking, the transition from a land based existance to an aquatic one is much easier done on a houseboat, in the “eye” of somebody who lived in an apartament or a house for all their life, IMHO.

    #16696

    Have to agree with ocean on that – we do not really search for some fancy, never seen before “DESIGNS” – on contrary – the voyage to ocean colonization starts right where we stand now and the next logical step might well be integrating houseboats which are a obvious and technological madure solution for living on the water you can get at low cost and off shelve – all in all a solid starting point.

    The first seasteads are probably rather houseboat and breakwater marinas than a “fancy piece of never seen before engineering”.

    What is there NOW and works well, will evolve over time and in almost inperceptible steps to something that is new, even better, and that takes houseboating out on the open ocean…

    Seasteading is not a “design contest of crazy shapes and snap fit solutions” it is a logical development of existing solutions in the sense of evolution…doing small steps based on current solutions is good … trying to reinvent the wheel and floating housing is bad.

    Floating housing is already there – it just needs to be developed a bit. We will see the following axes developing into surface floating seasteading and the following things developing into submerged seasteading.Another development focus will be Deep sea mining and the captain nemo float out.

    Something as a “universal seastead design” will never exist in the same way as a “internet computer” does not exist.

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

    #16698
    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    it just goes to show, when ur the one making the rules, ur always right. when ur not right, see rule #1.

    ____________

    Inventor of the “Bergstead”

    I cant afford this project send me money!

    #16699
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    Are there any used houseboats for sale in Cartagena? Also, how much do new ones cost there? Starting off with a floating marina makes a lot of sense, producing a simple product, the cement float, which can be both sold and rafted together as a marina and business platform for the seastead community. I’d like to do cast floating dome houses as well, but start off with something simple.

    #16700

    Compared with Florida the used houseboat market is “thin” here in Cartagena, but you can purchase a lot of abandoned sea going vessels in the 20m range in the shipyards….but this is a theme that is not well placed at the BERG thread…

    Wil

    #16707
    Avatar of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    mapping out the electronics:

    (last revised 1430 on 12/4)

    ____________

    Inventor of the “Bergstead”

    I cant afford this project send me money!

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