July 5, 2013 at 10:49 pm #22125
Charles Cain , anything off “public land” will be under intense usgc scrutiny. I suggested contacting timberland companies with waterfront, and leasing the minimum land (50×50 feet?) to guarantee a right to be there (on the land or in the adjoining water). Since the point of seasteading is to be off the land, making a point to the timberland owner that there will be no “improvements” (no road access, no fencing, no utilities, no construction) done to the land is important, so is the point that anything done in the water is not the responsibility of or liability to the land owner. This is often the arrangement with hunting clubs, who rent access to large swaths of timberland to hunt deer, pigs, etc.. If you are half mile offshore and the uscg pulls up and asks where your boat(s) is homeported, you can point to a floating dock tied to a few trees and show your lease papers. Your homeport marina is usually not where you live, but it can be.July 6, 2013 at 7:56 am #22127
No, Paper mill land on the bays, but you can legally anchor in Fla. waters as long as the area meets certain criteria, concerned about oyster beds and other underwater enterprises. Thinking off State or Federal land, not close to shore, just out of sight of private property so as not to be called an eyesore, so fewer complaints from others, out of sight out of mind.
Trying to lease sea bottom from state, a lot of hoops to jump through. Lease should be well off shore, once again out of sight…
Cons:EPA and other Regulatory Commissions .
Pros:Test in sea conditions, shade will draw bait fish, test self sufficiency and sustainability.
Can’t hurt, other than wallet, to try.July 6, 2013 at 8:33 am #22128
Yes, there’s a lot of relatively shallow water off Fla west coast, good for a Texas Tower approach, if you can anchor it down (deep screw piles aren’t cheap to install) and you can convince the gov there’s a good reason for it and that you won’t be a ship obstruction (but you always will be). For those reasons my next boat will be a “work boat”, which i can live aboard as needed, and use to ferry stuff out to a larger less mobile structure.
I was asking someone who favors barges, if you have a platform with the same surface area as a barge, with semisubmerged hulls and near-zero waterline area and enough float capacity, why go with a barge?July 6, 2013 at 4:35 pm #22130
No breakwater, seas will wash everything off just like the barrier islands. That’s why I’m trying to get a hexagon barge designed, use smaller ones as a breakwater. A barge has interior space for secure storage and a place to use as a storm cellar.
Yes I know dangers, but that is the challenge.July 7, 2013 at 2:45 am #22131
I introduced a similar project 4 years ago. http://www.seasteading.org/forum-list/topic/waveland-modular-mobile-offshore-base/July 7, 2013 at 9:50 am #22132
There is no way i’ll ever be able to live on such a structure, there’s too much cost involved. If you started the build process today, it wouldn’t be in the water for 10 years. I am aiming for a new 32ftx20ft swath-catamaran boat in the water next year, two years at the latest (i hope). Monday when everyone goes back to work i can begin cutting steel.July 8, 2013 at 2:03 am #22133
Then good luck with cuttting steel But living on a 32′ cat is not seasteading. Plus, you’d be better off buying a used cat for that matter instead of building one.July 8, 2013 at 6:06 am #22134
OCEANOPOLIS said: But living on a 32′ cat is not seasteading.
I rather agree (some people may disagree), but i can’t build and test a seastead where i live, and i own no deep waterfront, and rent is too pricey. The cat is to be a liveaboard workboat, akin to a very tiny drill rig support vessel in appearance, able to carry tons on-deck in 20ft lengths. And i know of no such boats for sale, and no boats at all at the price i can build one (and i have built a smaller cat boat, so i can prove that). There is a local lake i can test in/on, then i unbolt pieces and carry them to the ocean, and out on the workboat, for quick reassembly in deep water.July 8, 2013 at 4:51 pm #22135
As I said, you can do whatever you wish. But to me, testing a steel swath-cat hull would be a waste of time, since steel is not suited for seasteading because it will rust, therefore huge maintenance expenses. The best hull for seasteading is a barge type (monohull) made of ferrocement or (for bigger sizes) steel reinforced concrete.
Also, “a one man seasteading show” based on a thin wallet can take you only to a liveaboard situation.
My opinion so far is that a cooperative (partnership) between 10-15 people @ around $10k-20k would be a better starting point since it will result in a nice 80 feet seasteading business start up, 15 nautical miles offshore in the Gulf of Mexico.
But that’s just me,..July 9, 2013 at 8:39 am #22136
I again tend to agree with you. Almost everything you said is true. I cannot afford enough aluminum to build anything, so my goal will be to use as little steel as possible, to make it less of a money waste to keep replacing it as it rusts away, and active cathodic protection and paints and EPDM to forestall the rust.
I don’t think a barge, with so much area in the wave zone, is the best approach for a seastead. There’s enough pictures of aircaft carriers with waves over the bow, and wave damage, and battleships with daylight under the keel at the bow, and oil transports with broken backs, to convince me the wave zone is the place to put all my money.
I agree with what you say about a group being better able to build a larger structure, but it hasn’t happened yet, and it could have happened at any time over the last 50 years if it was going to happen. And now, my ptsd concerning neighbors is too great to be on a bargeful of humans. Even if i visit, i’d go home at the end of the day.
I do wish you a lot of luck. Your business startup barge may need transportation services to land and back, perhaps i can participate that small way some day.July 9, 2013 at 12:17 pm #22142
to convince me the wave zone is *NOT* the place to put all my money.July 9, 2013 at 1:07 pm #22143
Good luck with your projects
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