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BARGE ISLAND

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This topic contains 26 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of OCEANOPOLIS OCEANOPOLIS 1 year ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 27 total)
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  • #999
    Avatar of guest
    guest
    Participant

    Just wondering ,would it a good idea to create a Seastead that consist of a barge filled with soil ( To make it more land like) and if it is where would we put it ?

    http://newyork.corante.com/archives/Floating%20Island.jpg

    a sample of a barge island

    #6936
    Avatar of tomohern
    tomohern
    Participant

    Well that question has been asked quite a lot already. Mostly the consensus seems to be that barges won’t do well in the open ocean when faced with large waves and storms with out some sort of artificial breakwater or wave dampening.

    Putting soil on a barge is fine for plants but not for buildings. Soil is inherently unstable and when you put a building on it and subject it to wave like motions, things don’t go well (think earthquakes).

    Keeping the soil in containers is probably the best option.

    #6939
    Avatar of Carl-Pålsson
    Carl-Pålsson
    Participant

    You could make it a park, and have living quarters on a neighboring safer structure. Then if there is bad weather you disconnect and hope for the best. If the barge goes under it’s no major loss.

    I think some trees and bushes would be appreciated on the ocean. You could probably even charge admission.

    #6953
    Avatar of tomohern
    tomohern
    Participant

    Define a major loss. That seems like a major investment in both time and money just to let go of it so easily. Even if it cost twice as much to make something that would ride out a major storm, consider yourself ahead of the game once you make it through the third big storm.

    #6960
    Avatar of Carl-Pålsson
    Carl-Pålsson
    Participant

    A human life is a major loss. Of course losing supporting infrastucture can be a big economical setback, but economical setbacks can be overcome with hard work.

    And if you choose your location well, the risk encountering storms big enough to sink your barge might be lowered to some reasonable level. And there is always the option of at least trying to outrun the storm.

    My point is that there will always be risks involved with anything. Cheap but less seaworthy structures might make economical sense in the long run (for non-human rated tasks of course).

    Of course it is possible I am underestimating the frequency of storms. Maybe there is nowhere where storms are less frequent.

    #8898

    I do not share completly the opinion that barges are not suitable for seasteading – there are lots of examples in the oil and gas industry where barges (especially big and heavy concrete barges) do a great job hosting technical infrastructure and living quaters – one of the most outstanding examples is the “nkossa barge”.

    Mfg

    Wil Ellmer

    concretesubmarine.com

    #8905
    Avatar of Eelco
    Eelco
    Participant

    I agree with Wil; while barges dont do anything clever in particular to minimize wave impact, they do have one advantage: they are cheap, and because of their simple shape can economically be constructed out of concrete. Now if you can translate that advantage into making a big enough (300m+) structure, good motion performance will automagically follow.

    On the other hand; we do not want to start out with a large structure of that kind. But their simplicity makes barges a candidate for having them practically, modularly and rigidly connected together out on the water (unlike other concepts, for which I dont really see that happen). So you might start with fairly small sections near land, and once a critical number of them are built, they might be assembled into a structure large enough to do well out in international waters.

    As for covering them with dirt: a square meter deck area of such a barge will cost you about as much as an acre of dirt elsewhere (~$2000), and it is one of the cheapest options available.

    #8908
    Avatar of bencoder
    bencoder
    Participant

    Eelco wrote:

    So you might start with fairly small sections near land, and once a critical number of them are built, they might be assembled into a structure large enough to do well out in international waters.

    In fact, IIRC, the barge Wil mentioned was built pretty much like that. OK, the individual parts of it weren’t floating out in the sea with people on them, but it was built in modular sections in different countries and then the sections were tugged to the same place and combined to form the whole.

    #8909
    Avatar of Eelco
    Eelco
    Participant

    The Nkossa? No sir; ive been reading all about the details of its construction, and its a single piece. Its hull at least; the topsides I dunno..

    I recall reading about one floating concrete structure that was assembled on sea; but annoyingly, I cant find it anymore.

    As far as the $2000/m2 is concerned: ill eat my words. Unwarranted extrapolation. Its more like 6000/m2. That is, per m2 footprint, not per m2 floor area; you can have have lots of floors, obviously. Thats still pretty encouraging though.

    #9136
    Avatar of J.L.-Frusha
    J.L.-Frusha
    Participant

    That comes-out to 2 acres… Plant some ‘dwarf’ root-stock fruit trees, plant some salt-tolerant grass, add a small barn, a cow, a couple of sheep, goats, whatever…

    With 16 meter height, that takes care of the little waves…LOL Move it, before a storm, with some of those sewage transfer units I saw in another thread…

    Thanks,

    Been looking for something like that!!! The wife will be pleased!

    BTW the hull IS a cast, pre-stressed unit. The equipment on it, came as seperate units…

    #9139

    The Nkossa Barge was built as one single large barge but there was modular building in the outfit – livingquaters, industrial installation etc was built in modules in different sites. The building of a modular barge as floating platform was suggested for the lower section of the Freedo Ship, and it was also present in the mega float airport in tokyo bay – so it might be seen as a already established engineering technique for building large flat floating structures.

    A interesting sector to look at might also be submarine tunnel building, as those tunnel concrete segments are built in drydocks, floated out like a large concrete barges, and finally connected to a existing structure (the tunnel) – basicly the same technique just with the additional difficulty to connect the segments under water – so connecting them on surface is a simple task compared to what those engineers are doing right now in the bosporus tunnel and similar civil engineering projects.

    #22109
    Avatar of Charles Cain
    Charles Cain
    Participant

    How about a hexagon “mother” barge, then add more barges as population and other needs grow(multiple,low angle corners).  Surround the main island with smaller, floating hexagon containers, act as a break-water, storage(hydrogen made from water used as fuel to run generators).  Break-water would be several containers thick. Connect break-water to mother’ with more containers, act as a bridge/quay out to break-water.  Could become a destination for cruisers, provisions and dry dock, night life, deep sea fishing.  Call it: Anything, Oasis del Mar, that way as more are built they could be named, Something, Oasis del Mar.  Oasis: because it would be a place to trade, rest, just like one in the desert.

     

    The containers would sit low in the water, maybe just 2 or 3 feet out so one could safely walk on them, inspections, recreational fishing( bait fish will be drawn to the algae and other growth on the containers), yachts and cruisers tie up.

     

    Lots of other ideas: air conditioning with wave pumps, solar stills for fresh water, of course, solar and wind generators…

    #22110
    Avatar of spark
    spark
    Participant

    Hexagon mother barge: might be a good idea. How are you planning to build one?

    #22116
    Avatar of Charles Cain
    Charles Cain
    Participant

    Semi-retired now, gotta decide on buy a boat and go sailing or something else. Seasteading has always interested me, never been done and a BIG challenge.  Been reading Patri  since they where talking about tying soda bottles together.

     

    Starting a off shore corporation, funding? big question.  Can build the structure myself, not that complicated, wish I could draw or knew CAD.

     

    In Florida you can anchor, but finding a place that I would not have to constantly fight the local land owners will be tough.  Checking into leasing ground in the Gulf, experimental project, need legal help, can hear over the phone; huh, build a what?.

     

    Answer to your question: build as I can afford, big one first then the smaller break-water containers, anchor in a cove off public land, then have a tug tow everything out and assemble.  Won’t be easy, might never get’r done, won’t know less I try.

    #22120
    Avatar of spark
    spark
    Participant

    to: Charles Cain

     

    Hello;

    I could be more formal. I donno. To spell ‘experiment’: spelling is not my strength, English is not my native language.

    Please excuse me.

     

    I think you have good ideas.  I would be interested about what you find out on building on water, and towing, and assembling.

     

    I think, a small boat is necessary for seasteading.

     

    Back to ‘experiment’  please see one of my blog: http://exp30002.blogspot.com/

    Emails about seasteading are also appreciated at exp30002@gmail.com

     

    Respectfully;

    spark

     

     

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