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ARTWORK – Share your stuff, get feedback from the community

Home Forums Community Dreaming / Crazy Ideas / Speculation ARTWORK – Share your stuff, get feedback from the community

This topic contains 135 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of shredder7753 shredder7753 2 years, 12 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 136 total)
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  • #13130
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    sometimes it takes me a bit to see the obvious. this may be a lil better configuration:

    woody pm’d me and said i should round the edges. i do plan on rounding many of the edges but doing that increases the file size dramatically and makes it more difficult to edit the model. i have to wait until the design solidifies.

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    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #13131
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    this is a way to grow, but it might be too much pressure for a mooring system to handle:

    ShredderSteads – “Be a ShredderSteader”

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    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #13132
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    im starting to think this idea could be marketable to the existing houseboating community and the budding seasteading movement. let me know if you know of a good maritime engineer, who would like to roll this around.

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    #13138
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    these x-braces could be a major problem the more i think about it. last night i imagined that 2 owners were having a fight about some stupid crap after drinking one night. the one owner gets sooooo pissed, and says ” im outta here!”. he and his wife pulled up reeeeaallly hard on one of the x-braces… and released it. the heavy brace crashes down into the other guys berg and breaches it. then it sinks. then it pulls down the other 3 bergs, includiing the belligerent couples.

    im stuck with this design for now.

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    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #13139
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    i used to have the roundcorner plugin for sketchup (by fredo6), but that hard drive died. now i am having trouble finding the download. i found the description page on sketchucation.com but it says “you do not have permission to download” does anyone know if i need to pay something or if there is another link somewhere?

    nm – here it is: http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=20485&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p171721

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    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #13141
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    I just copied the whole file to demonstrate how round edges look. this is .25m radius:

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    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #13149
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    User “ellmer” claims that, by his experience, this type of structure would float at the midline. So I made some adjustments. The windows moved up, to where you cant really look straight out from interior floor height, but they let a tremendous amount of light in. Also the tires had to move up. That was it. The x-brace thingys still have 2.05m between them and the water, which might be enough for a small powerboat – but remember the waves can get rowdy so its not a really good place. we could also put the x-braces on the bottom but then they would be submerged, which is possible but not as nice.

    the nice thing about having them at the bottom, i could devise a fairly simple system using floats to hold them up if someone says they want to leave the group.

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    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #13150
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    if people are willing to spend $400K on these, why not have your own private island instead?

    I think my Mini-Bergstead could be built, fitted out, furnished and moored 15 miles offshore for under $300K. Then buy a $45K cuddy cabin power boat, and you’re ready to rock and roll on your very own modular island!!

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    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #13155
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    “don’t you want me, baby…”

    i know these habitats need generators, just in case something happens to the wind turbine. but think about this – have you seen the Chevy Volt? using the same technology coupled together with a v-a-w-t you could power the whole thing 90+ % of the time AND use that same technology to power the boat! your only 15 miles from shore – the wind turbine coupled with batteries that charge up at night would take care of almost all your energy needs.. so basically your recurring costs are down to maintenance, insurance, and food. the little bit of fuel you need would be resupplied by a commercial supply vessel in bulk and put into your big tank at the bottom.

    lol – i just realized how dumb that umbrella is.

    ____________

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    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #13160
    Profile photo of R-B-Wood
    R-B-Wood
    Participant

    Looks good,

    Why don’t you start building some scale prototypes?

    Make everything to scale including the wall and window thickness and see if it can survive being submerged.

    #13159
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    Mini-Bergstead Development Vision:

    I propose the best place to start putting Mini-Bergsteads is 15 miles off the coast of Fort Myers, FL. It has a thriving boating community, moderate climate, and best of all – it is right in the paths of hurricanes. We need to demonstrate the ability of the proposed structure, so they have to be installed where it is most likely to get walloped asap, and repeatedly. Also because there is maritime industry in the area, it is more likely for us to find an existing mooring line to purchase or lease. If the design proves to be worth its weight, a starter community could be developed in that location.

    In the event of a hurricane forecast; usually you have days to prepare. The Mini-Bergstead dwellers will need 4 hours to adequately prepare and evacuate to a safer place on shore. The reason I see it necessary to evacuate is really because of the boat they use not having a safe place to stow while at their Mini-Bergstead. If they dont evacuate, they might not have a boat left after the storm.

    So when a storm is forecast, the dwellers should secure everything on the inside and outside, lock the hatch and board their boat. Then, using a secure application on their Android phone, start the sinking process that lowers the ‘stead below the waves. The process cannot start unless sensors detect that the hatch is properly sealed. There should be enough sensors and video streams to adequately monitor the structure through an internet VPN. My expectation is that a reliable data connection will be feasible without resorting to satellite communication, as the structure would be relatively close to shore.

    The cost of the first Mini-Bergsteads may be hampered by sub-par control methods and standardization, but when industrial processes are set in place the cost of these should be very economical, as they are mostly made out of steel-reinforced concrete.

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    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #13161
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    Mini-Bergstead Design Completion Strategy:

    From where this currently stands, the plan is to continue developing the visual design within the 3-D model while seeking qualified, interested engineers to start forming the actual design specifications. The visual design is based on certain assumptions which are realistic enough that it will be within reach for a qualified engineer to develop into a working model. The visual design has 0.1m walls. These will not suffice in the final plan. But a qualified engineer will be able to make a close number, or at least conclude on a range of thickness that could be suitable for the qualities we seek. It will be up to the design team and requisite permit-granting authorities on how best to prototype and test the structure prior to construction.

    The four outward facing exterior walls, the bottom, and the top deck of the structure will need to be very robust to withstand the forces of the sea while maintaining their integrity with the least possible maintenance costs. The walls around the perimeter of the top deck may be thinner. The interior floor will also be thinner, perhaps 0.1m (4in.). The interior partition walls may be a light gauge steel / drywall system, using “hat track” and existing pre-formed styrofoam insulation products (I have direct experience with that). There will need to be interior structural supports either made from poured concrete, cmu block, or steel columns.

    The use of standard building methods and materials is very important. Criteria for each product and material will be specified by qualified personnel. Then the products used will be found or bid competitively. In such cases where no existing product is found to satisfy the specifications, qualified fabricators will be bid competitively. For example, the hatch system may be one of the most expensive products needed. My expectation is that an existing product will be found that facilitates the criteria. If it is necessary to designate a fabricator for the hatch it will be much more expensive. As mentioned already, the cost of building the Mini-BergStead will start relatively high and then fall dramatically as unit numbers increase. This is why the sales aspect is crucial, and why I am currently focused on the visual design.

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    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #13162
    Profile photo of OCEANOPOLIS
    OCEANOPOLIS
    Participant

    The connectors, as shown in your design, won’t last in heavy seas. Assuming they are steel bars, they’ll bend and rip through the hull connection. You are better off rafting those floats closely, using traditional methods, dock line on cleats and tractor tire for fenders. Even so, in heavy seas you might have a problem, since the whole structure will surf up and down big long waves. Your best bet is to built those square floats cheaply and raft them up to a shape of choice ( I would suggest a rhombus, thus you have some of the hydrodynamical qualities of a “hull”). Then, pour a steel reeinforced concrete deck on top of the whole structure that will keep everything together. This deck is now the bottom and your squares are the floatation. Build the walls now (the topsides) @ a height dictated by the structure’s LOA. Now you have one big, solid, monolithical float that will take heavy seas much better (in terms of the rolling motion) and much safer then, lets say 20 smaller square floats. Still, for the size you shown, we are looking @ million$ in building costs. In this case, it will be cheaper to buy a decommissiond ferryboat or cargoship for pennies to the dollar and use it as a floating platform to build on.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/500-Gross-Ton-Decommissioned-Ferry-Boat-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3a64b59183QQitemZ250797724035QQptZOtherQ5fBoats

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/282-Sludge-Tanker-Vessel-1952-former-DEP-Ship-/360356556843?pt=Other_Boats&hash=item53e6ecb02b

    #13163
    Profile photo of shredder7753
    shredder7753
    Participant

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    The connectors, as shown in your design, won’t last in heavy seas. Assuming they are steel bars, they’ll bend and rip through the hull connection. You are better off rafting those floats closely, using traditional methods, dock line on cleats and tractor tire for fenders. Even so, in heavy seas you might have a problem, since the whole structure will surf up and down big long waves. Your best bet is to built those square floats cheaply and raft them up to a shape of choice ( I would suggest a rhombus, thus you have some of the hydrodynamical qualities of a “hull”). Then, pour a steel reeinforced concrete deck on top of the whole structure that will keep everything together. This deck is now the bottom and your squares are the floatation. Build the walls now (the topsides) @ a height dictated by the structure’s LOA. Now you have one big, solid, monolithical float that will take heavy seas much better (in terms of the rolling motion) and much safer then, lets say 20 smaller square floats. Still, for the size you shown, we are looking @ million$ in building costs. In this case, it will be cheaper to buy a decommissiond ferryboat or cargoship for pennies to the dollar and use it as a floating platform to build on.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/500-Gross-Ton-Decommissioned-Ferry-Boat-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3a64b59183QQitemZ250797724035QQptZOtherQ5fBoats

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/282-Sludge-Tanker-Vessel-1952-former-DEP-Ship-/360356556843?pt=Other_Boats&hash=item53e6ecb02b

    Ocean – please enlighten me with some stories about past restoration projects you have been involved with. In my experience they’re hardly worhwhile from a business standpoint. Also, any info on where you got the “million$ in building costs” figure would be helpful, but please do not use fake dimensions. the real dimensions have already been provided.

    also, claiming that the metal connectors will not work is not useful information. stating exactly how/why they would not work is more conducive to the convo. your previous comment leads me to believe there could be a lack of understanding exactly how such connections would work, and what they were designed to do.

    i can also modify the system so that, instead of only 1 “trailer hitch” per corner there would be 2 or even 4. the connections where the hitch is imbedded into the concrete would HAVE to be more than just a bolt-on connection. it will need to be integrated deeply with the steel reinforcement inside the concrete, and basically connected with continuous steel throughout the concrete structure. please note that the trailer hitch used in this model was SCALED UP by a factor of about 5 from its normal size. please also note the bridge design is not complete and the one shown is just illustrative. the bridge would not work as shown.

    i believe these whole structures could be done for under 300K USD. right now, concrete is “on sale” along with everything else about the construction industry (myself included). these structures are made entirely out of steel reinforced concrete plus the addition of a) a hatch, b) exterior railings, c) windows, and d) OPTIONAL – connectors.

    one thing that is critical to understand is that waves are generally a product of the wind. the higher the wind velocity, the larger the waves. these bergs will not ride up and down huge waves, because it would be the owners responsibility to submerge it below the surface when a storm enters the forecast with winds above a certain velocity. Even when an owner is negligent and neglects to properly prepare it for a major storm, giant ocean swells would still simply wash over the deck because the mooring line is pulling down on the structure.

    ____________

    My work

    “Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”

    #13167

    OCEANOPOLIS wrote:

    … You are better off rafting those floats closely, using traditional methods, dock line on cleats and tractor tire for fenders. Even so, in heavy seas you might have a problem, since the whole structure will surf up and down big long waves. Your best bet is to built those square floats cheaply and raft them up to a shape of choice ( I would suggest a rhombus, thus you have some of the hydrodynamical qualities of a “hull”). Then, pour a steel reeinforced concrete deck on top of the whole structure that will keep everything together. This deck is now the bottom and your squares are the floatation. Build the walls now (the topsides) @ a height dictated by the structure’s LOA. Now you have one big, solid, monolithical float that will take heavy seas much better (in terms of the rolling motion) and much safer then, lets say 20 smaller square floats. Still, for the size you shown, we are looking @ million$ in building costs. In this case, it will be cheaper to buy a decommissiond ferryboat or cargoship for pennies to the dollar and use it as a floating platform to build on.

    Ocean the fact that you are a sailor and have seen connectons working in sea conditions is obvious. I agree completly that having small float elements and connect them via cast joints is the viable method – the question left for the deep thought section is : how do you apply that so that useful realestate at affordable cost comes out at the end. It is clear that avoid the need of a drydock is key for the feasibility of a business plan. It is also clear that the size of the final monolithic piece needs to be over 20m to achieve the required comfort level on board in waves. This “size requirement” restricts surface floats of any kind in open sea wave conditions pretty much to million dollar budgets.

    I agree with ocean that buy an old ship is a rapid way to purchase a big monolithic float with proven wave capacity – the problem of ships is the maintenance cost – the simple fact that you have to maintain that steel hull and that engine drives the dayly cost of running a ship to some 60.000 USD. There is no chance that this can be a housing solution. TSI is going for that – but it is no cooincidence that patri notes that “we have not looked yet to the actual costs of business parks on ships”…

    When they do they will find out what is the reason why there are no business parks on floating ships out there. Unfortunatly Magellan Network also seems to be not interested in practical floating out of anything…so i am going to “less engagaged mode” for now … as it looks now the year 2015 is more likly to see a a political discussion about imagiative legal problems of the klingon floating empire than a working 20m family seastead floated out under leadership of TSI…

    Wil

    concretesubmarine.com

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