Apply Seasteading Concrete Shell Structures
May 30, 2011 at 10:13 am #13646
You are right that the sequence of events here is mixed up. In a proper business venture, we would determine the scale (how big) scope (how many) and costs (how much) of the project as determined by the amount of money we were focused upon raising. There would not be any questions about any of these – they would be specific numbers for materials, for labor, for fees, and for financing requests, along with a detailed profit model showing the return on investment. Of course, to have all of these we would need the right resources, proper people, adequate funding, target market, and a focused timeline to guide implementation.
We currently lack a great deal of most of these elements, and lack a few of them in their entirety.
But, the sequence of events being screwy is a result of the lack of the elements, rather than the lack of the elements being the result of the screwed up sequence of events in our discussions and workings here.
I see that you have tried to get the ball rolling before, and that is entirely commendable. The reason it has failed to move, though, is not due to a lack of concenssus, I would put forth, but rather caused by a lack of the proper environment for success. Trying to get some guys together to fund, build, and launch one of these babies is going to be nearly insurmountable till the right set of circumstances come along. Imagine that for success in a Seastead venture you have to have a total score of 100 from 5 categories, each of which are scored from 1-20 based upon the people in each category – money, technical knowledge, practical knowledge, planning, and operating. If they were the absolutely perfect person, one guy could do the whole thing on his own (the billionaire with a PhD who ran a construction crew on an oil rig etc etc). In reality, due to availability, specialization, and scores of other factors, you would need dozens of people who combine to make a perfect 20 in each category for the whole thing to work. The problem we face here is that we, all of us together, just dont add up to 100 – yet. The time could quickly come when you could find that kind of group here, or it might never come on this forum and may arise elsewhere, who knows. As the whole movement grows, getting the 20s in each group will get easier. As a realist, though, I have to say that I think that to do it the very first time, it will be incredibly tough and requre LOTS of people – so sayeth the prophet, at least.
The final point I have to make, though, is that even though we may not have everything we need to be able to actually do this right now, or even next year or the year after that, we may as well work on whatever we can work on. That means, since we cannot anticipate how Seasteading will eventually arise, that we should work on perfecting, to the highest level we are able, as many different options as possible.
The sequence of events will be screwed up to all hell and back, yes. But, we can still make progress, even if we cant achieve realization quite yet.May 30, 2011 at 4:52 pm #13647
But the realization of the challanges ahead of us seems to have created a “lets wait and see” attitude at this level of seasteading we are talking about. To me, such an attitude is unacceptable. There is no excuse for not better organizing ourselfl. There is also no excuse for not better using our intelectual and financial resources, whatever they are and as minimal as they are. I do realize from my personal experience that most of us can only be “seasteading” on a part time basis and we can only do so much. We all have a life outside seasteading, everyday problems that we have to take care of. But if we combine our part time efforts, we will have a full time effort, no doubt about it, IMHO.
Having said so, I will continue working on my singlehand project, the MMK. But, I have also been working for a while on a micronation dedicated to ocean colonization in general, and hopfully I will launch it in the next few weeks. Under its present format it is design specifically to cater to the needs of seasteading as a grassroots movment. It is also designed as a financial tool to raise funds for the future construction of a small seastead, by requiring a small membership fee upfront and a small monthly contribution from those who want to join and participate. It will also attempt to exlpore different sources of revenue like pay per click and internet commerce. Feel free to comment, and I will keep you posted.May 30, 2011 at 7:59 pm #13648
Richard Allens Bergstead concept is the best platform design to date.
I’d like to know more about the bergstead concept. I’m sure you’ve already discussed it at length somewhere… so just point me in the right direction.May 31, 2011 at 1:04 am #13650GenSeneca wrote:
Richard Allens Bergstead concept is the best platform design to date.
I’d like to know more about the bergstead concept. I’m sure you’ve already discussed it at length somewhere… so just point me in the right direction.
Gen – the bergstead would probably be a very useful base within your design. its a very simple concrete polatform with interior space WITHIN the hull (not on top) that could be built to go underneath the ocean surface. Read thru the ARTWORK thread to learn in detail what its all about and I welcome you to ask as many questions as u can come up with. The Bergstead (25m sq, 2 interior floors) is introduced in the 7th comment. The mini-Berg (10m sq, 1 interior floor) is introduced on the next page but evolves until the 6th page. Have fun!
Emmett – i hope u stick around awhile. we see the same wavelength (pun intended). lets just keep hammering them until people realize this is more about leadership than purely our individual interests. i dont have any copyright on this berg thing, just credit me for introducing it to the convo if u should ever find a way to run with it. eye of the tiger, man.
“Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”May 31, 2011 at 1:31 pm #13653
ellmer – http://yook3.comParticipantOCEANOPOLIS wrote:
…. There is no excuse for not better organizing ourselfl. There is also no excuse for not better using our intelectual and financial resources, whatever they are and as minimal as they are. .. I will continue working on my singlehand project, the MMK. But, I have also been working for a while on a micronation dedicated to ocean colonization in general, and hopfully I will launch it in the next few weeks….
Ocean, i am glad to hear that you are on track with MMK. Like you i have experienced that it seems incredible difficult to get just a few hundreds USD per month to a seasteading R&D project. On the other hand i have found that once you have even the smallest platform you can step upon – people pop up from the neighbourhood with the request “i want one” for all kind of uses. So if you build up a credible claim for being able to build a “permanent float” of any kind you can already go business local and grassroot. People will percieve you as a “barge company” specialized in permanent concrete floats. You may be better off not even mention the goal of seasteading.
It is probably easier to get support and financing for a beerstead from a local tavern owner than from the seasteading movement.
Looking forward to hear about the micronation project….
concretesubmarine.comMay 31, 2011 at 7:17 pm #13664
Last week, we took a boat to Peanut Island, one of the nicest spots to hang out on the water, here in West Palm Beach Fl. http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=peanut+island+&qpvt=peanut+island+&FORM=IGRE#x0y0 Remember Key West Dangerous Don’s Bait shack? Well, little I knew that there is a similar business here, in my own backyard! And Don, sit down, get a pen and take some business notes budy, because Conchy Bowe’s Bait Shack anchored by the Peanut Island’s sand bar is also selling burgers and drinks, right there on the water. And you now what, they are damn good, and business can’t be better. We were one of the 5 boats who pulled in there (I had to do that!) and there where 6-7 more waiting in line,…Bowe never hard of seasteading, but when I asked him he stared at me for a sec, and kinda’ of figure it out, saying: “something like I do,… uhh?”. Yeap, right on the money, Bowe!
Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BFptbWgxcw
And his facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/ConchyBowes#!/pages/Conchy-Bowes-Bait-Barge/146790368690955
After all, what started as a joke, the Beerstead might be an exellent seasteading business idea. Just talk to Bowe, shake hands like sailors, raft up the Beerstead to Bowe’s shack, have twice as much docking space all around and have 10 tables on Beerstead where Bowe sells his burgers and I sell my cold brewskies. Hmmmm.
PS. I forgot to mention that Bowe delivers too. If you are anchored around the Peanut Island, just call him and he’ll show up.May 31, 2011 at 7:52 pm #13667
but I wanted to mention that I think your idea of a micronation is fantastic, Ocean. I unequivocally agree that there is no excuse for us not better organizing and collecting our resources, as they be, and given your obvious practial experience and well-worded way of speaking, I think you are an excellent rallying point. I unfortunately have the obliagtion of serving out my current contract with the military – it is highly unlikely I will sign for a further contract – but I can definitely participate financially and intellectually. More questions and comments to come later.May 31, 2011 at 8:34 pm #13668
ellmer – http://yook3.comParticipant
ocean i never thought beerstead was a joke. On contrary it is a real world application with a feasible, tested business plan, and a potential to grow.
I find it interesting that Bowe opted for a catamaran float solution – obviously for 2 reason mobility and stability.
A (chambered) catamaran float element built from concrete to replace the (fast rotting) bambus bundle in the asian houseboat concept is one of my favorite concepts too. The float element shown above (built in one of our pilot projects) could be the base for a “segmented catamaran” that can grow with the business when more and more boats come along for cool beer and hamburger. The flat deck is also a great feature to have tables and chairs like a normal restaurant.
Beerstead could end up being someday something like the last picture….but for now optimizing the existing beerstead model introduced by Bowe and Dangerous John seems to be a excellent starting point.
concretesubmarine.comMay 31, 2011 at 9:37 pm #13669
emm, for your kind words. And let me truly say that in the only 2 weeks you’ve been around, you have shown us a deep understanding of the seasteading subject and a educated, eloquent ability to participate to these forums. Again, welcome!
Wil, I think Bowe’s shack it’s a modified aluminum pontoon boat, if I am not mistaken ( I was having “few” drinks at the time,..:). I was thinking at the catamaran solution for seasteading too. Light, very stable, much economical to built then a monohull, less hull maintenance. A lots of good qualities to go for, indeed.
That would be Beerstead on steroids, lol.June 1, 2011 at 2:11 am #13678
look, u guys. i might not b very eloquent and all that hoity toity stuff, but u aint got a better 3D artist so eat it. im a little rough around the edges and thats how i like it. before we can toast each others success with champagne and filet mignon – we have to survive.
no one even thanked me for gettin rid of Seadouche-.
“Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”June 1, 2011 at 3:12 am #13679
You are the best 3D artist east of the Mississippi. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for your leadership in getting rid of ‘steader. Pls. post your adress so we can send you the Seasteader of the Year certificate of appreciation.
Seriously now:) What happened to the Tristead? I REALLY like it. A triangle is a far better shape then a square in terms of “dealing” with water. IMHOJune 1, 2011 at 4:23 am #13681June 1, 2011 at 1:13 pm #13682
I do realize from my personal experience that most of us can only be “seasteading” on a part time basis and we can only do so much. We all have a life outside seasteading, everyday problems that we have to take care of.
well I’m dedicated to seasteading full-time.
built a boat, taking sailing lessons, learning foraging skills.
But if we combine our part time efforts, we will have a full time effort, no doubt about it, IMHO.
We’d probably have several full time efforts.
Even my full-time effort is fairly amateur.
but Ellmer is a professional, full-time seastead hull-maker.
Under its present format it is design specifically to cater to the needs of seasteading as a grassroots movment. It is also designed as a financial tool to raise funds for the future construction of a small seastead, by requiring a small membership fee upfront and a small monthly contribution from those who want to join and participate. It will also attempt to exlpore different sources of revenue like pay per click and internet commerce. Feel free to comment, and I will keep you posted.
I tried getting money via websites and intentionall community before, but it didn’t work at all.
That’s why I gave up on money and decided people are more important.
anyhow I hope more success than I achieved.
Like look at Patri Friedman and his university educated employees,
all they have to do is write a few pages a year,
and maybe just maybe a conference or meeting,
and they get hundreds of thousands of dollars.
What’s in a name? potentially a lot of money.
Maybe instead of a Freeman I should be a Friedman? lol
calm aware desire choice love express intuit moveJune 2, 2011 at 7:02 am #13690
the ARTWORK forum for a MiniTristead idea.June 5, 2011 at 5:59 pm #13714
ellmer – when i introduced the bergstead, you expressed doubts based on the high cost of launching it. is it possible that we could rent 2 mobile cranes and do a tandem lift? mobile cranes are available to like 360-tons in my area. 2 of those should be able to lift a 100-ton concrete box and put it in the water 25-50 ft away (maybe? im not qualified to say). how much u think it would cost to do it that way? then we wouldnt need a dry dock or a ramp. we just need a guy with a bulldozer to level out a peice of land next to the water and then we can build a berg with steel and crete. first one doesnt have to last 100 years.
“Leadership and do-ership are not the same thing”
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