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Analytical Analyst

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This topic contains 14 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of sda1950 sda1950 2 years, 12 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
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  • #1677
    Profile photo of chadsims
    chadsims
    Participant

    Hey all,

    Heard about this a couple years ago and found it endlessly interesting. my analytical nature (i work as an analyst) has led me to dig into this. The one thing I can’t figure out is why it hasn’t been done since everything I’m finding out is it doesn’t require billions of dollars to do. A million would be far to much to start the first ocean going colony. I’d do it, being libertarian conservative myself, but don’t have anyhwere near the money to start.

    #16009
    Profile photo of Chucker
    Chucker
    Participant

    Alot of ideas here how to spend a million dollars.

    Welcome aboard

    #16011
    Profile photo of chadsims
    chadsims
    Participant

    If I had 1 Million dollars. I could design and deploy small, cheap ‘family units’. My mind is picturing flat bottomed shallow boats with some sort of latching system, and of course the ability to ‘free float’ a bit away without actually losing the group. Ropes perhapes, wheel yourself in to ‘dock’ with your neigbor for storms or social visits? A few extras for shared ‘land’ with good dirt and high enough to keep the sea water out to grow plants. And purhaps soil on the roofs so each family can grow food aswell? But for a million I’m positive I could come up with something that could be sistainable and support a dozen families. Now I just need to win the lotto. :D

    ‘Lead, Follow, or get out of my way.’ -Unknown

    #16046
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    chadsims wrote:

    If I had 1 Million dollars. I could design and deploy small, cheap ‘family units’.

    You could easily make toy models for 10’s, and deployable models for 100’s.

    If they were small and cheap, you wouldn’t need a million dollars,

    a few thousand is cheap, so should be enough..

    My mind is picturing flat bottomed shallow boats

    er, that would make people very seasick. flat bottoms are okay on land, but on the ocean, they go topsy turvy.

    As always “do like the locals do”, on land, animals have 4 legs, so having houses on stilts or with 4 corners is acceptable. In the ocean, animals/fish have rounded bottoms, typically even if they are stationary as in the case of shellfish.

    Historically rouded hulls have always been the best, minimizing wetted surface, and allowing for natural planing. Rounded hulls also are easy to make from ferrocement, and are the best for submarines.

    with some sort of latching system, and of course the ability to ‘free float’ a bit away without actually losing the group. Ropes perhapes, wheel yourself in to ‘dock’ with your neigbor for storms or social visits?

    fish rarely have “ropes” or anything else attaching them to each other, they stay together by traveling or moving in schools. Even passive organisms can regroup effectively, for instance sailing jellyfish, which are carried by wind and current, often congregate based on this mutual action.

    A few extras for shared ‘land’ with good dirt and high enough to keep the sea water out to grow plants. And purhaps soil on the roofs so each family can grow food aswell?

    you’d be better off growing aquatic plants such as algae, along with shellfish, and other aquatic life. It’s easier, more productive, and more consisten with actual seasteading. You may have heard of “biofouling” well that can also be called a hull garden.

    But for a million I’m positive I could come up with something that could be sistainable and support a dozen families.

    :-)

    Now I just need to win the lotto. :D

    that’s a poverty mentality.

    in my experience… IQ’s have to be fairly low, to fall for such a petty scam.

    Though admitedly many border-line retarded behaviours,

    have been ingrained into the north-american culture through media and marketing.

    We with You are a Network, our goal to become technologically-enabled reproducible family communities. http://weyounet.info

    #16074
    Profile photo of wohl1917
    wohl1917
    Participant

    …GET A BOAT! Welcome aboard Chadsims.

    < http://ocr.wikia.com/wiki/Oceanic_Citizens_Republic_Wiki>

    Profile photo of chadsims
    chadsims
    Participant

    er, that would make people very seasick. flat bottoms are okay on land, but on the ocean, they go topsy turvy.

    As always “do like the locals do”, on land, animals have 4 legs, so having houses on stilts or with 4 corners is acceptable. In the ocean, animals/fish have rounded bottoms, typically even if they are stationary as in the case of shellfish.

    Historically rouded hulls have always been the best, minimizing wetted surface, and allowing for natural planing. Rounded hulls also are easy to make from ferrocement, and are the best for submarines.

    Thus why I spoke of the weight. it would keep the boat drawn towards being upright and remove alot of the rocking, while still providing an easy access.

    fish rarely have “ropes” or anything else attaching them to each other, they stay together by traveling or moving in schools. Even passive organisms can regroup effectively, for instance sailing jellyfish, which are carried by wind and current, often congregate based on this mutual action.

    Copying the animal kingdom rarely leads to anything that helps. Using an active system, ropes, hooks, ect… I would provide control over everything. Humans aren’t jellyfish, our boats can’t be made like them. Jellyfish DO swim, just not like fish. I wouldn’t call them, passive. They are always up to something, just at a different speed than we’re used to. So unless you want to constantly run the motor to keep them togeather you should have some sort of latching system.

    Now I just need to win the lotto. :D

    that’s a poverty mentality.

    in my experience… IQ’s have to be fairly low, to fall for such a petty scam.

    Though admitedly many border-line retarded behaviours,

    have been ingrained into the north-american culture through media and marketing.

    [/quote]

    [/quote]

    Are my chances of winning the lotto big? Nope, but i don’t spend much on the money and theoretically the chance of me winning millions makes the price worth the possible reward. As long as I’m not buying dozens of tickets. In fact I rarely buy tickets.

    ‘Lead, Follow, or get out of my way.’ -Unknown

    #16085
    Profile photo of lietosanabaltija
    lietosanabaltija
    Participant

    Chadsims, truth be told, if you look at the current catamaran ships, very stable even on rough seas and officially classified unsinkable, say, from Lagoon:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKdeXqwUi80

    they already are de facto single family homes on the sea, even the cheapest ones, they are just not called “seasteading” units.

    What is missing from the picture, in my opinion, is a community, a central point for these ships to anchor on the sea. And until THAT structure is manufactured by somebody or some organisation, these ships are sailing on their own.

    #16087
    Profile photo of Chucker
    Chucker
    Participant

    Problem I see is there no food growing. Noone will survive without food or cash on these boats. Just my thoughts.

    #16090
    Profile photo of chadsims
    chadsims
    Participant

    1,526,000 You know what that million and a half number is? The price in US dollars. LOL.

    Lead, Follow, or get out of my way.’ -Unknown

    #16091
    Profile photo of lietosanabaltija
    lietosanabaltija
    Participant

    Sure, Lagoon 620 is $1.5 m new, but that is the top-of-the-line boat (the brand doesn’t make bigger boats than that), and has luxury accommodation for at least 6 people.

    Just like in single family homes, you have plenty to choose from for “seastead single family homes”, with the cheapest Lagoon catamarans for 3-4 people starting at around $200,000 I believe, and purchased used, much less (the full range is available at http://www.cata-lagoon.com).

    There are other choices available as well, from other brands. Multihull designs are great for seasteading, because they are virtually unsinkable, plus very stable in rough seas.

    All I was pointing out was that there already are solutions to individual families to live on the seas. Most of the well-equipped ships can store 6 months of food, plus the multihull ships are great for using solar panels due to the wide surface space.

    I could also envision a small on-board garden on a catamaran as well, plus you can place as large satellite dish as you want on a catamaran for satellite tv / broadband satellite internet.

    #16094
    Profile photo of elspru
    elspru
    Participant

    Sure, Lagoon 620 is $1.5 m new, but that is the top-of-the-line boat (the brand doesn’t make bigger boats than that), and has luxury accommodation for at least 6 people.

    Based on my most pessimistic phiboat calculations, can make a concrete island boat for 14 people to live in comfortably with a price tag of $230,000, though costing only 65,000 in materials. 12.6m long, 7.7m wide, 4.9m high, net volume of 140m^3.

    Just like in single family homes, you have plenty to choose from for “seastead single family homes”, with the cheapest Lagoon catamarans for 3-4 people starting at around $200,000 I believe, and purchased used, much less (the full range is available at http://www.cata-lagoon.com).

    for 5 people, costing $24,000 priced at $100,000, 9m long 5.5m wide 3.5m high, 51m^3.

    If skimp out on the reinforcement can drastrically reduce the price,

    with larger boats, the concrete does more of the work, so can use less rebar/mesh percentage.

    those are just projected prices, based on by $200 concrete dinghy, thats 0.45 m^3 volume.

    There are other choices available as well, from other brands. Multihull designs are great for seasteading, because they are virtually unsinkable,

    Any boat can be made unsinkable. If done with styrofoam that can drastically limit living space, though with partions can maintain space, simply have several rooms, and make sure they are water-tight. This is a concept applied in chinese junks.

    plus very stable in rough seas.

    Er rought seas? ahem, Catamarans slip and slide, are prone to flipping if they crash into a wave, their front gets slower, the back carries on momentum, having nowhere to go but up, it comes over and flop, your boat is turtled, unlikely you’ll be able to flip it back without a big crane, or seperable pontoons.

    stable on high seas are ballasted wide heavy monohulls sitting low in the water, they simply go up and down with the waves, tilting minimal amounts.

    Though the most stable in rough seas, are submersibles and submarines.

    All I was pointing out was that there already are solutions to individual families to live on the seas. Most of the well-equipped ships can store 6 months of food,

    person requires 600grams dry food per day, 0.6 * (365 / 2) = 109.5 kg

    potentially up to 1kg a day. 1 * (365 / 2) = 182.5 kg

    a carrying capacity of 200kg is meager, that’s like the weight of two extra people and belongings…

    Unfortunately since these boats are designed with a specific waterline, they don’t function properly if overloaded.

    Though that is of course true for any commercially designed surface boat, including monohulls.

    Compare that to that 5 person boat I just mentioned, which has a maximum safe carrying capacity at around 20 metric tons, though if it had that much cargo, it would likely become a 4 person seastead.

    plus the multihull ships are great for using solar panels due to the wide surface space.

    Actually recent research by young children has found that arranging solar panels in a tree arrangement is much more efficient, especially during morning, evening, and in high latitudes.

    Also if you were to have solar panels, you’d likely want to have them raised up so you could still walk on the deck.

    I could also envision a small on-board garden on a catamaran as well,

    lol envision all you like, though salt spray kills most plants, that’s why most beaches don’t have plant life on them. The exception being mongroves, though they require fairly still water, oh and lots of soil, which might upset the preciously designed waterline.

    Though that is of course true for any commercially designed recreational yachting boat, including monohulls.

    The alternative is of course to have a hull garden, in the submerged portion of the ship, or if you have a very large island, that supports a soil/sand layer then can have various salt-resistant plants.

    plus you can place as large satellite dish as you want on a catamaran for satellite tv / broadband satellite internet.

    lol, er well catamarans have things which they are good at,

    that includes going very fast, and being cranes.

    Though yes, it’s possible to dedicate a catamaran to hold something,

    though it would be much more stable on a large wide monohull, such as a phi boat…

    We with You are a Network, our goal to become technologically-enabled reproducible family communities. http://weyounet.info

    #16097
    Profile photo of lietosanabaltija
    lietosanabaltija
    Participant

    You bring up some interesting points elspru, but I don’t just get your pessimism regarding multihull designs, or pessimism overall, maybe you are selling an alternative on your own.

    To respond, I’d rather purchase a ready-made sailing-ready luxurious “multihull island” for $200k with all the goodies than venture the same money on an untested barebones concept, at this point in time.

    I don’t know which kind of storms of the century you are envisioning (which can be naturally avoided, nobody needs to stay on such a course), but the fact remains that multihulls are much more stable designs than monohulls, lessening seasickness, and providing a much more livable experience on the seas, which is very important to most people, if you plan to spend a lot of time on the boat.

    Your calculations on how much food people need are just plain wrong. People do need food, but the needs are not based on dry food amounts in kg, I don’t know why you would even suggest that, but rather on calories, the amounts of proteins, carbs, and fats, and vitamins/minerals in them. Knowing that is how CRON diet works, a highly popular, scientifically proven anti-aging diet.

    I haven’t seen any tree arrangements on solar panels, so I’ll stick to the proven method.

    I don’t know how experienced gardener you are elspru, but you can seal of a small on-board garden from outside elements pretty easily, similarly how you can do it on a house garden, and control all the elements inside it, to optimize how the plants grow.

    Why not have a satellite tv / broadband internet onboard? I don’t like living like a hermit, and I envision most people share that opinion. There are plenty of marine satellite tv / broadband solutions to choose from nowadays, and catamarans have the space to put them onto. Top deck, easily movable mobile pool table is my second choice of entertainment.

    #16102
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Can you provide links for the marine satellite tv/internet? This would be useful.

    #16103
    Profile photo of chadsims
    chadsims
    Participant

    Still don’t think Catamarans are the way togo, but i agree with most of your theory. Certainly about having internet. In a perfect society I believe every family in on my seastead city would have a rifle and a tablet computer. Tablet computer could be used for voting (anyone over the age of 13), mailing others, emergency messages, alarms, to send out notes on any meetings that took place and comunity events, surfing the web, AND i think that it’d be great for the school aged children to be tested via their tablets. As a libertarian we’d have a school but most would probably choose homeschooling, and the tablet would make sure that minimum things where taught. Reading, writing, math, science. Manditory learning, even as a libertarain I believe that the children need some protection from stupid parents. Most homeschooled kids do better than school ones though so would be rare that something happens. Would also help find children who are ‘slow’ and to provide help for the parent or teacher in keeping the child up or slowing the schooling to fit the child. (school should fit the child, some might need 8 years others 15)

    ‘Lead, Follow, or get out of my way.’ -Unknown

    #16116
    Profile photo of sda1950
    sda1950
    Participant

    admiral wrote:

    Can you provide links for the marine satellite tv/internet? This would be useful.

    I’ve always envisioned a platform able to move in 2 axis with a wheel spinning in the center to stabilize the platform. This would provide a stable mount for a satellite dish (VSAT). This should take care of peoples’ needs.

    Steve

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